Oh I hate streamers, yotubers and other game leeches

I hate “content creators” since my EVE days. The reason is that their goal isn’t to win, but to set up a good show for their viewers. If their roam ends in a complete annihilation, that’s funny and people watch it. Shroud and the rest of PUBG streamers jumping to the dumbest places on purpose to rack up kills (usually on their own buddies who sometimes bring them flying cars) didn’t help me love them either.

Today I’ve met another great specimen, Frazelleth and let me say I was less than amused. During the game I just put him on mute for offering a retarded strategy. If only he was an obscure moron, we might have won. But he is not obscure. He has a youtube channel, if you want to see him crying over CV rework, you can, though I advise against giving them Youtube money. I wish I had replays. But the scoreboard can tell it all:

Now the story. Sorry for no actual screenshots, I didn’t look him up until the end of the battle, I dismissed him as “just another moron”. So you have to settle with this MsPaint map and recollection of the happenings:

  1. is where we spawn. Our hero announced that everyone must stay together and swarm C. I of course went to the left side of the map and muted him when he complained.
  2. is where I spotted the first enemy after the RPF shown his direction, a Zao. I sent some torps at his way. Then I spotted a battleship south from there. And another. In the meantime, the rest of the team was on their way to C, unable to do anything. Our hero sent his planes to sink the Zao, only to spot the entire enemy fleet at the same zone. All the planes were lost to the Minotaur and enemy fighters.
  3. is where I died, crossdropped, chased by Grozovoi
  4. is where our “content creator” died, permaspotted by enemy planes he couldn’t counter due to losing his planes #2. The team was still wandering between the islands of C. No other ships were damaged at this point besides the one who ate one of my torps.

His plan was moronic from the start, but it shouldn’t have ended so horribly, especially since I went to the best place to slow down the enemy. It ended in a disaster because he had some fame, so probably one of the players in the enemy team recognized him, knew about his less than smart strategy and told the team the obvious counter: “all go left and A, since the CV will be the closest to us”.

The question is, why is he using this obviously bad plan? Because it makes good videos when it works. Lemming trains mostly end in defeat, but in minority of the cases, it ends with a complete victory. The lemmings encounter half of the enemy team, obliterate them, then turn and kill the other half. I’m sure he posted many of these videos, proving how awesome and great he is. The majority of the games that end in the expected way won’t make it to youtube.

I hope next time I see him, he’ll be on the enemy team. Though the best would be never seeing his dumb face again. It was funny that he tried to blame me, but when I pointed out that he died second despite I slowed the enemy down at least a bit, he went silent. Let me guess, this great battle won’t make it to his videos.

This is the first time I saw a team actually following the self-made admiral. Usually most just ignore the strategy in the chat. It’s Europe, so most of the players don’t even speak English. I don’t get why there wasn’t just one cruiser to go to the usual “hug island” position (mirror of #2), preferably with radar, or a battleship sailing near #3. They could give enough support for me and the moron to retreat. If the cruiser had radar, the enemy plan would have been revealed before all airplanes were lost. But no. For the first time I had to get a bunch of obedient socials who do as “famous man” orders them, even if he is nothing but clown doing stunts on Youtube.


PS: another game, without youtuber, “go shima cap” they said:

Author: Gevlon

My blog: https://greedygoblinblog.wordpress.com/

24 thoughts on “Oh I hate streamers, yotubers and other game leeches”

  1. Normally i don’t. Post and it’s hard to judge without replay but you are wrong in some assumptions.

    1. Strategy and meta is 100% different in CV vs. Without CV. You don’t know this as you probably faced – what? 20 CVs? Fara is CV and ranks out every time, thus sharing his advice and knowledge.

    2. Lemming train IS the winning strat given a CV.

    3. Going alone and trying to play your style in a DD given a CV IS dumb. You just get cross dropped and will die 100% against a rank 5+ CVs. Concept is operating in friendly or enemy AA bubble. Fara even explained this in a theorycrafting tutorial on his channel.

    4. Mino and Wooster are hard counters to any CV. You cant do anything against it. Just Lose evereything on a Quarter of the map. But as a CV there is the concept of..desperation drops? The worse the game state, the more planes you are willed to risk to get a swing. One example: I lost 2 torp squads and 1.5 DIVE bomb squads to kill a wooster. But ot was a divi mate of the enemy CVs and a unicum player – i Baited him in a mistake. No win secure but it prolonged the game granting me three other drops. It Sounds like a desparation drop to me what youre saying. It always looks stupid but for good CVs this is as common as cross dropping.

    5. Countering 2 on this map, normal statuonary CA/CL, leaves you allone and dying given a competent CV. AP bombs and gone. No counter.

    6. As a CV you play 1:1′ There are hundred ways to look extraordinary dumb given only the smallest mistake. Nevertheless, Fara has proven to be one of the top CV players in this game. No lulz and fun content here. You watch sc2 playstyle with 6 units. There IS no M&S style fun stuff possible. Just good and bad play.

    7. Disclaimer: WG never wxplained CV gameplay, tactics or controls. I spent probably 50 hours already watching and learning from faras tutorial videos and streams. This is pure gold for a CV but thus please treat this with a grain of salt as i might be biased.

    8. He has a puppy. There is a cam on his puppy all the time. That’s his m&s content! šŸ˜‰


  2. @Chewiecide: there was absolutely no reason for him to “suicide drop” the Mino. There was like 2 mins past the game, no ships died, hell only 3 ships were spotted. Yet he drove everything into a smoke+Zao+2x BB group.

    – Running to C is retarded EVEN if you want a lemming train. You just gave A+B to the enemy.

    – The game was winnable before he suicided his planes for no reason. All he had to do is protecting me with one fighter while I retreat to him, and from there I’m in his def AA bubble, spotting torps and flooding them with torps. I was already retreating when killed with no air defense.

    He is just plain bad. He merely shows the videos where he got lucky with his retarded stunts.


  3. He may have tried to get the other carrier to lose its planes against your teams combined air defense and then bomb the other team piecemeal.


  4. I turned on my computer and audited the replay:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/311250297 @ hour 1:57.

    You should re-evaluate your playstyle. your move was one of the dumbest of all opening drives hin high lvl ranked CV gameplay. No excuses. Funnily, you lost against a lemming train. This time itĀ“s no conspiracy. No “bad lemming train” – you just acted dumb and IĀ“m reading this blog as I do know you will gather up knowledge, adapt and improve. It will be interesting to see if you react on your gameplay or just through away CV games like this one again.

    Said that: I laughed hardly how bad Fara played in this video. ItĀ“s top tier lvl CV micro tactics probably 2% of the players can even perform. He tried to save you all the time and screwed it up badly, basically both CVs did the exact same thing but the other CV slightly earlier / better = boom all planes lost and thus you & Fara have been dead.

    Said that: Fara indeed wouldnĀ“t have died if he wouldnĀ“t have risked the fighter micro duel in the open without any AA bubble. ItĀ“s a 50:50 coin flip on this rank lvl. you look very stupid if you lose as in CV micro duel you donĀ“t lose 2:1 or 3:2 if itĀ“s very close – you lose 10:1. but this duel was close and high class gameplay. Kudos to both.

    Last thing: Fara admitted directly: Oh man, heĀ“s dead and itĀ“s my fault. He was probably most angry about himself screwing up this fighter micro. He directly accepted the challenge you threw on him and still tried to win and admitted openly in stream that he failed. Afterwards, it escalated against you, of course.

    His tutorial video for playing ranked with a CV:

    Be aware – itĀ“s just 20 minutes hardcore theory and no gameplay at all!

    Fara is by no means a “just for the lulz” content streamer & “leecher”. DonĀ“t extrapolate your bad experience on PUBG on other games without further making your famous analysises. YouĀ“re clearly not doing yourself a favor here.


  5. Sorry, I donĀ“t know how to quote here. Please delete and drop a comment if you want to keep your blog clean:

    @Chewiecide: there was absolutely no reason for him to ā€œsuicide dropā€ the Mino. There was like 2 mins past the game, no ships died, hell only 3 ships were spotted. Yet he drove everything into a smoke+Zao+2x BB group.

    >>> Mino AA is the issue here. You are in the AA bubble before the ships pop up as the AA range is bigger than the detection range. Zao was stretched and the best target against this group. BBs have been irrelevant. His torp bombers moved in and while commited you do see – o damn, the mino is here – bad luck. If you try to run away, you lose probably 2 planes less but you didnĀ“t drop. ItĀ“s totally normal to commit on the drop for a CV then. he got two torp hits & flooding. Totally fine. The bad thing was that he couldnĀ“t drop the Zao with AP bomb squads due to the mino. That was his main attack there. Later he did but didnĀ“t get perfect hits. That happens.

    ā€“ Running to C is retarded EVEN if you want a lemming train. You just gave A+B to the enemy.
    >>>> As said: You donĀ“t know the meta in CV ranked gameplay. ItĀ“s 100% different to normal gamestyle. ThatĀ“s why fara is a “strategist”: people simply donĀ“t know what to do as the CV population is so damn small that you do see propably 10 CV games up to rank 1 at all. I cant judge the lemming train by itself to C on this map. I can only judge stretching. You should have been closer to the team. THatĀ“s a given.

    ā€“ The game was winnable before he suicided his planes for no reason. All he had to do is protecting me with one fighter while I retreat to him, and from there Iā€™m in his def AA bubble, spotting torps and flooding them with torps. I was already retreating when killed with no air defense.
    >>> this was awkward from the beginning. You stretched the team and jeopardized all of his game plans. Look it this way: You decided that it is his duty to adapt to your chosen game style. 6 different people wanted to play differently. Why should he bother about you? ItĀ“s bad selfish strategy if your moves 100% rely on succes to one other player you canĀ“t control. “he just had to protect me with one fighter” is like i would tell you “why just donĀ“t torp this one DD away?!?” – itĀ“s damn hard to do that! no guarantee! Only guarantee is for you to know friendly AA bubble range and operate in that.

    He is just plain bad. He merely shows the videos where he got lucky with his retarded stunts.
    >>> thatĀ“s just wrong. He keeps the full stream online as proven above. and he admitts to his mistakes. I simply donĀ“t get your anger here:
    You have exactly one playstyle. Shima torp boat, which you kind of “mastered” in WOWS. You never played other ships seriously and/or openly admitted that CV is not your cup of tea. Now you get a request from a CV player to adapt your gamestyle. You didnĀ“t. He did. Both failed. Now, itĀ“s just his fault and not even partially yours?

    Step back, admit that was poor play from both and improve next time please. At the moment you just feel entitled to say “I do know how to play, iĀ“m the best player to decide that. And i want to 100% stick to it even in a CV game” ArenĀ“t you a strategist by yourself then? How should he have known that you expect him with fighter coverage if you donĀ“t want to chat and “being a strategist”? If your gamestyle needs some work of collaboration – why is yours better than his?


  6. @Chewiecide: he had no reason to drive planes into the Minotaur. It was sitting behind the volcano, unable to shoot anything. He could instead:
    – just ignore me
    – notice that I pinged the Volcano as crazy when I saw it on RPF, figure out where the enemy Lemmings come and tell the team to turn back (sure win)
    – just leave a single fighter above me which does not engage the enemy fighters but strafe the torp planes. This forces the enemy to either commit more than one fighter, leaving his team rear up for attack or lose torp planes.
    – he could just spot the damn Grozovoi and I run faster for the corner. I would have still died, but only after wasting 5 mins of several enemies and score some more torp hits

    He is just like the other Streamers: great on micro, retarded on strategy. I don’t care what he copy-pasted from an obscure tutorial into “his” strategy guide. I saw him playing and he is dumb.


  7. ItĀ“s really like youĀ“re wasting your blog assumptions here just for your anger – still I donĀ“t get why?
    ā€“ just ignore me
    >>> given that you made a suboptimal move itĀ“s still best for him to change his strategy and trying to save you. As already said that didnĀ“t work out and he screwed up the micro part.
    the rest was legit for him. As said the drop on the Zao was fine I would have done it, too. You donĀ“t know TB management and fighter cycling times on T10 to judge that fully, do you? I played probably 200 games in DDs. Do I give you detailled advice in how to torp with a Shima? No. I simply donĀ“t know. You should admit to that concept of knowledge and opinion, too.

    He is just like the other Streamers: great on micro, retarded on strategy. I donā€™t care what he copy-pasted from an obscure tutorial into ā€œhisā€ strategy guide. I saw him playing and he is dumb.

    He IS the tutorial and others copy & pasted from him. ThatĀ“s researchable and with your assumption of your blog & behaviour you could have known that. THatĀ“s at least my expectation as a reader – otherwise I just could read a flawed random rant about a bad outcome of one play. Which this post 100% is.

    There is no research, proven facts and knowledge. Just ranting and anger and trying to value down a very good, not flawless, player who openly shares his experience with others. As you can see – IĀ“m turning from facts to emotions by myself at itĀ“s hard to disprove an argument with facts and the counterpart just states ” i donĀ“t care about your facts. HeĀ“s dumb”. So this will be my last post on this topic as I donĀ“t have to add more than my conclusion:

    1. You made an ignorant initial mistake in stretching the AA bubble of your team.
    2. Fara played bad afterwards
    3. Both died and got salty
    4. You extrapolate bad experience on somebody else without facts but pure emotion
    5. you ignore given background and more data to check first from your audience and stick to your claim that “heĀ“s just dumb.”

    Very strange behavior. Against your blogging style…


  8. @Gevlon
    >All he had to do is protecting me with one fighter while I retreat to him

    (Disclaimer: I’ve never played this game and so I’m probably talking out of my ass)

    How did he know that you planned to retreat to his position? Could he communicate and coordinate such a plan after you had muted him? Do the radial-menu messages (such as “fall back”) appear in chat if you’ve muted the sender?

    Wouldn’t he risk losing map presence (and/or scouting information) by devoting half of his fighters to your position (western map edge) instead of patrolling the center or the capture points? The CV seems to be isolated and I assume that he wouldn’t benefit from AA guns on the friendly cruisers. Is there a risk that enemy strike aircraft could sneak through to the north and bomb the CV itself?

    Let’s assume that he decides to give you fighter cover. Doesn’t this decision grant the enemy CV an opportunity, since he can kill Frazelleth’s 1 patrolling fighter squadron (or force it to retreat) by concentrating his 2 fighter squadrons? Does a dead fighter squadron respawn after a few minutes – or would it be lost forever?

    Would the enemy destroyer be able to see the fighters guarding you? Wouldn’t the hovering fighters announce your position and allow enemies to track you (in spite of your smoke screen)?


  9. @Edwardqjones: he “could” doesn’t mean he should. See below. I only meant to say that even doing that would have made more sense

    @Chewiecide: despite you write “I played probably 200 games in DDs. Do I give you detailled advice in how to torp with a Shima? No. I simply donĀ“t know.” you do exactly that. Telling me how to play DD in a CV game.

    What you need to understand is that a DD who is not called Khaba, Grozovoi or Harugumo (maybe Gearing) is worthless in a CV game. We don’t have gun range and DPM to damage enemies while inside the AA bubble and we can’t leave it if we don’t want to die. Our torps are spotted early by enemy planes. We can’t spot, because the planes outspot us. Ergo, a Shima sitting in the AA bubble isn’t more valuable than a dead Shima. If you have a team with CV and you can choose to get an extra Shima piloted by the very best player or 1 extra fighter in the reserve of the CV, pick the fighter.

    The ONLY good way to play Shima in a CV game is going alone, doing initial spot (where the ships are heading) creating as much distraction as possible for the enemy, making them dodging torps and wasting the enemy CV time to search for us and then do the manual drop at the right moment. Then die. I outdid that by landing a torp (because they were too crowded).

    By committing 2 fighter squads to protect me, he performed heresy. I mean “use DCU for 1 fire on a BB while destroyers are nearby” class idiocy. His fighters worth much more than me. He wanted to look good on stream, believed that he can out-micro the enemy CV and did it anyway. He could use one fighter group to force the enemy CV to divert both groups and either suicide-strafe them or run while the other fighter spots or escorts bombers.

    I wouldn’t do any differently, besides telling him “DON’T PROTECT ME” and maybe staying 2km higher on the map.


  10. you are wrong here – again. Your value in a CV game is the points the enemy gets for killing you. The best strategy in a CV game for a Shima is to stay alive. If you throw yourself away, you enforce the team to push in because they are behind points. You canĀ“t catch that up without having cap advantage or getting a kill lead. Additionally, the spotting of the fleet is totally up to the CV. you have to spot long range torps for your fleet inside their AA Bubble like 4-5km away from your BBs.

    Winning strategy in CV ranked: Patience. You did the opposite and “forced a fumble” so to say. Your strategy might work – okay – but just tell him what your plan is and tell him how you want to play. Admit on failure afterwards. all your assumptions what he could do went to the bin as you blantantly stated “muted” on chat. You didnĀ“t want to play with teamwork as you do think itĀ“s bad. So donĀ“t blame the CV if he assumes to do the best he can when you even donĀ“t want him to do that. Just tell him to stop.

    Again. IĀ“m not telling you how to play – it was Fara. And itĀ“s a bold statement from your side in just saying it without proof you do know better how to play in a CV game than a player who is about to rank out for the 9th time in a row and played >1k CV ranked games with winrate >65%. He is part of a clan that is in the Top5 of the comunity worldwide. Probably Top3. THey kicked 2 very famous streamers some months ago for taking streaming too serious and not foucssing on competitive play enough, including hidden training sessions. But fara is still in as he takes care. So all of these are facts and that guides me to the theme: He knows what heĀ“s doing.

    And you have a “better view” on this and your assumptions why heĀ“s doing are right from one single game?!

    I do want prove and data that your strat is better than his. He proved with compelling theory and proven success in CV games over years. Where is your analysis of ~100 CV games in a Shima where you have positivie winrate by dying early? You could change the meta in ranked forever? I do think youĀ“re listening to the traffic news in radio and thinking “one ghost driver on my motor way?!?! There are hundreds!!!”

    you can do that – but only rational with proof and data. Not just yelling on a dumb mistake anybody can make in a single game.


  11. @Chewiecide: so your suggestion of playing in a CV game is: be practically AFK somewhere to prevent point loss. However DDs are worth the smallest points, ergo, losing my points can only make difference if no one has cap advantage and one team capped 1 secs earlier, so few points ahead.

    If your strategy is true, then bringing a CV into a game is purposeful griefing, as it forces all the DD players into NOT PLAYING. The only counter of griefing is counter-griefing, ergo, even if my strategy is not optimal, my actions should be focusing on griefing the CV player who griefed me by queuing up. So even teamkilling him would have been a valid strategy. If all DDs of the game unite in teamkilling their CV, they would stop coming to grief us.

    But that’s not what I did, I did what I always do when I’m in a CV game and – from the fact that I’m in the same bracket as him – it works just as well as whatever he does.

    About game theory: since I see CV only rarely (and now I’ll be on the lookout for them in the queue, if 2 are in queue, I leave queue), I can afford to lose all my CV games and still rank out.


  12. All I was responding to is: You felt entitled to be right and Fara is a bad player and “leecher” of the game due to streaming, pretending he hides his bad games and not streaming them. I disproved everything what you said – your result is to play queue management instead – which is fine & legit and way better than everything what you said in this string.

    My point is: this is a low quality post and rant – really unusual for your blog. As Fara is simply not the target you made him of just with bad preparation of your post. Hell you even spent time drawing pictures instead of just checking his stream – it took me 3 min to find the game you where talking about where he specifically stated directly that you died due to his fault. All the “he said she said” drama of what he should do or not do is senseless when you avoid chat and teamwork.

    The whole situation with CVs is specifically why the rework is coming. But given the current CV Meta, insisting on your gamestyle IN a cv game was just wrong. Pretending on “griefing” of CVs etc. is as wrong as a BB could argue – well i TK every Shima when I see it because of the damn torps. I feeel entitled to sail on a straight line in the back and want to oneshot broadside crusiers.


  13. @Chewiecide: him being a leech on the game is unrelated to his play. He “earned” this by being a streamer, making money on the work of the game developers and other players. We are all unpayed actors in his Muppet show.

    I don’t watch streams, I have no idea where they are and how to search them.
    I avoided chat and “teamwork”, because I had no idea who he was and muting is my default action for armchair admirals.

    Torps are not broken and game-ruining. Most BBs manage to not die to them, Shimas are typically low on damage. Ergo, the answer to crying BBs is to be better. CVs are absolutely broken and render DD play redundant. You told it yourself here by suggesting that I should have just been AFK near the cruisers doing nothing.

    Bringing a CV to a competitive play is simply griefing.


  14. once again you stay on your death spiral here. I read your blog due to the easy concept: “Play a game for winning” – and minmaxing while doing it to save time.

    The only definition of legit for this approach is: Is it possible in the game? Yes. Is it a ban afterwards like cheating or exploiting with ban? No. So a CV today is legit.

    You do blame one of the best CV players in “play for the win and minmax” in this game for being a douchebag whoĀ“s playing this game for the money and griefing on other players? He provided 10x more valuable content for this game than you or even WG did when it comes to the CV gameplay.

    Where is your play for winning? Minmax would be to openly admit: I donĀ“t mind having an easy game, patiently waiting shortly in front of my AA bubble and spotting DD torps for them – baiting their unpatient M&S DDs into line of sight and helping focussing them down without dying. Your skill comes in realizing when the CV has to recycle – then you have a ~2-3min window to push into a play and cap / torp something. You can do that ~5 times in a game.

    Now youĀ“re mourning about “griefing” this is “broken” “I avoid and ignore it because itĀ“s streamers”. He provides valuable content and guides on the game which is useful in the sense of: Checking 10 mins of his content – either written, streamed or as VOD in youtube – helps you more than plaing 10 minutes. Why should his content be less valuable e.g. than any gold farming guide or your PUBG guide on reddit? Only because of the medium the content is provided in? If he earns money with it? Fine. I couldnĀ“t care less if you did with your blog, too.

    Your reaction on this is just M&S laziness in his purest form. You feel entitled that the CV is broken so you donĀ“t have to deal with it. Sitting patiently in the back and “doing nothing” is “bad” and “afk near” – you know what? You mocked up people for playing PUBG on KD ratio and headshot % instead on for the win? You already played a full game as a meta strategy in being afk near and patient – now this is too dumb for you to bother with it?

    Who tells you what is allowed in the game and whatĀ“s not? The devs. Period. Deal with the game and find your minmaxing way. The CV is in. ItĀ“s a legit ship. Ignoring the meta around CVs is as M&S as ignoring that playing auction house in WoW is way better for gold farming than mining – because “auction house is broken and OP”. Any out of game judgement that narrows down strategies is just being a scrub and trying to play for skill, not pure essence win and minmax.

    Throwing a game away and simply ignore stuff youĀ“re bad in – fine. I do get this. This could be minmax – control the 80%, ignore the 20. But donĀ“t pretend a player who took 25% of the games you needed to come into the “same bracket” on ranks than you did – and he proofed to be able to do that 9 times in a row – is not a worthwhile source to listen to in a “play for win no matter how dumb the strat is” context.

    IĀ“m even as far as:
    I specifically play CVs as I do know they are broken. I grief on other players to win easy and way faster than all other ships can. Basically playing a 1on1 instead of a 7on7 or 12on12. Obviously you can control the 1on1 in a pure selfish, minmax oriented playstyle. I do know that. And? IsnĀ“t that the essence on your blog / playstyle? I do want to get reports on this type on gameplay – not a rant on “heĀ“s dumb and his ship is OP”.


  15. @Chewiecide:

    Yes, I mocked headshotting players in PUBG. I often run to the edge in WoWs to kite some more valuable ships away from the battle. I do anything for a win, even if it involves sitting in the corner. But you are not suggesting me a WINNING strategy that involves lot of waiting. There are 1-1 CV in both sides. One of the sides will lose. Which side I will be on is totally random. So even if I do everything the CV says, I get 50% winrate. No thanks.

    I still believe that the best way of playing DD in a CV game is to make as much distraction, pinging and turning to the enemy as possible in your short life. I won CV games. Hell, I sank CVs myself sneaking around the map. I won games by dying first to a drop while our CV dropped a Hindenburg. Remember, while he kills my worthless ass, he isn’t killing anything worthy and his planes are now empty.

    Streamers provide no value, since they do not actually provide anything that comes from them. Please tell me what value one can get from watching the game discussed here? Making tutorial videos where most of the content is created by the creator is different, but on his stream he just plays and banter. Him making money is relevant in the sense that he is motivated to be entertaining instead of useful, hence he did that totally pointless duel in the middle of nowhere.

    I accept your position that you want to grief other players. But then why are you so upset if other player flips you and griefs you back? I can afford an occasional loss just to make a prick rage. Watching him “fuck this, I play Stalingrad in randoms” when he left the battle was quite entertaining.

    Finally, you ignore the elephant in the room. He died second with 15K damage, 10 plane kills. He IS dumb and worthless on his own. All his results are badly depending on the whole team catering to him, doing what he says to make his job easier. Hey, I want a pocket Worchester that shadows me 5km behind in full concealment build and radar when I say and fire when I spot something. And a Stalingrad 12km behind, aiming where I ping with HE loaded. Will I get it? No. Then why should Frazelle and you get a pocket DD who just sits 5km from the battleships doing nothing?!

    You – and him – feel entitled to control the whole team, making the game 1v1. I refused to play that way and he was unable to adapt even on the level of a potato: “ignore him and play with the rest”.


  16. 1. I still believe that the best way of playing DD in a CV game is to make as much distraction, pinging and turning to the enemy as possible in your short life.
    >>> biggest flaw. you make this statement with having the experience of ~20 ranked CV games in a DD? vs. a player who has over 1k games with 65% winrate. And you just donĀ“t proof your cause. You try to argument with one single game which both of you screwed up.

    2. Streamers provide no value, since they do not actually provide anything that comes from them. Please tell me what value one can get from watching the game discussed here? Making tutorial videos where most of the content is created by the creator is different, but on his stream he just plays and banter.
    >>> you blamed him for not creating content. He created the best CV tutorials in this game being the top go-to source for new CV players for several years now. All posted on youtube and as easy as searchable like steady posts from your blog. Disproved your claim that heĀ“s not providing content.

    3. Him making money is relevant in the sense that he is motivated to be entertaining instead of useful, hence he did that totally pointless duel in the middle of nowhere.
    >>> the good thing on his stream is that he openly shares his thought process – he tried to pin him and partially strafe through both fighters with not hitting his own so no need of exit strafing. If you do know whatĀ“s relevant in the details, you can extract that bit for your own micro. I looked it 5 times to understand why he failed and the other one suceeded. I never watch his stream life but scroll through it as replay database. the replay function of WG is just too bad to do it there. Going to the game: As shared he tried to do it to save you. The initial need to save you when he screwed up came from your game style, not his. Again: You do pretend streaming in WoWs is no valuable content. I disproved this – youĀ“re just “too lazy” as this is “too dumb” to even try to search for – just extrapolating prejudices from a previous game into the new one.

    4. All his results are badly depending on the whole team catering to him, doing what he says to make his job easier.
    >>> he has a proven track record of success. and yes, in the given Meta if you do see having a competent CV the best you can do to win is to cater him and not stretching his skills because you turn the 50:50 to a 48:52 against your team – resulting into a crushing defeat. You judge him purely on one game – ItĀ“s like I would pretend you being bad at PUBG despite you being Top10 worldwide because I saw you dying once 1st in the whole round.

    5. But then why are you so upset if other player flips you and griefs you back?
    >>> IĀ“m not upset about that. IĀ“m upset about your behavior in turning a rational, unemotional minmaxing blog into a rant area where “i do screw up other players just for the lulz and pushing him into stalingrad random” is pretended to be optimal strategy. I thought you can openly admit a mistake so you can learn from it. Apparently not and thus not better as any other “special snowflake” who thinks his “opinion / think / believe” is “better / more pro” than others. Despite facts.


  17. @Chewiecide:

    1: I’m entitled to try out and test my strategies, right? I don’t have the evidence until I play enough games, but you say I must obey a stranger because I didn’t play enough games. How can I play enough games with my strategy if I must follow someone else’s?!

    2: I didn’t claim he creates no value. I claimed he creates no value while streaming.

    3: his choice to try to save me was his and not mine. Also, at some point he had to fight the enemy CV and we have no reason to believe that it would end differently. I may prompted him into engagement, but surely didn’t cause him to lose. Fun addition: I would have probably won that fighter 1v1, because I never strafe-out. I just use one of my squads as bait and strafe it together with 2 enemies. They don’t see it coming because people try to save both squads.

    4: ANYONE can win if he has the whole team at his service AND he is competent. But why should I trust a random dude that he is competent?

    5: The game was lost on loading screen, since the other CV player was better than him in strafing. So pushing him to Stalingrad random is as good as it gets.

    You are still avoiding the elephant: even if I do everything as the CV says, it guarantees no victory. It merely allows him to 1v1 in peace. If he loses, I still lose even if I do everything as he said. However if I go and create a distraction, I might push the enemy CV into doing something stupid. Like I did. If Frazelle would be half as good as you claim he is, he would have used the time when the enemy CV killed me to kill the enemy Stalingrad which was just as mispositioned as me.


  18. again you donĀ“t get it: I donĀ“t blame you at all on your game or your playstyle. I do blame you for a bad blogpost. You did not do any research. You used prejudices on a previous game for extrapolation without proof and youĀ“re talking about strategies you donĀ“t know and arenĀ“t aware of and pretend itĀ“s better.

    your last argument is as bad as it can get – how is “i do want to create my own playstyle and test it with 100s of games” any good? Picking up & learning from existing good players is the smartest thing to do as it safes you 100s of hours of game time.

    change the tonality of your post into something like “look what a flipper WoWs sometimes is – how single decisions can lead into a total failure of two – at least decent – players” and iĀ“m fine with it. But you are creating a case here that is not there. This post is based on emotions and rant – which is really low quality and you rightfully would mock up anybody else if youĀ“d read/see it elsewhere.


  19. What i hate the most about Content Creator, is the impact they have on “spectator”:
    -From bad strategic habit (they play for entertainment and to for winning)
    -Bad Manner habit (Flamu’s Potatoes for example)
    -The Fan Club, with is more fanatized than Star Wars fan.There is no point starting arguing with them, you can’t even reach their “live” brain part.

    It’s OK, because it’s on XXX stream, Game Dev,Community manager won’t allow it if it’s bad ? [sarcasm]


  20. @Chewiecide While I share most of your arguments, I can’t disagree more on the “just toe the line and learn from good players”. It’s a totally Gevlonish move to ignore the “rules of the meta” and brake them with new ideas. To do that, you absolutely have to question what everybody does.


  21. Faraz is considered a great player and I can’t really comment on it since I don’t play CVs. From my experience, most streamers are good but not great. They get impressive results mostly because nobody in their teams wants to look bad in public so they actually play in a sensible manner and listen to strategy.

    Agreed on CVs being griefers. They should all be removed from the game and be sent a copy of Dune 2 each. That’s roughly how engaging CV gameplay is, a very bad RTS.

    Lastly, lemmings lose. Even in CV games the team should split into 2 divisions, 1 has AA from a good cruiser, the other is protected by fighters. In this game, however, you had no good AA ship while the enemy had a Minotaur and a Grozovoi (it has the best AA of all DDs if I remember correctly, enough to not get dropped too easily). Lemming train was a valid strategy, but I’d choose to go the other side of the map (because it rewards 2 caps, while C stands alone and can’t really be pushed unless you win air). This map is just horrible for CVs because the middle of the map is a no-go zone. Teams either lemming or are so far apart that fighters become useless – the enemy can simply strike the other end of the map.

    Going solo in a CV game is unacceptable for a DD. Want to distract them? you can do it in a much better way by sending torps out all game long.

    There is a website http://wowstactic.tk/ for creating maps and presentations in WoWs, much better than Paint.


  22. @Jean: you are right. Sorry for being misubderstood:

    It makes sense to try Breaking the meta. But this time it’s plain dumb to proclaim ā€œgoing alone is valid/best in a CV gameā€œ.

    I think Gevlon tried to break the meta just for the sake of breaking it. But at least you need a theory, then hypothesis, then tests to prove / disprove his case. Easiest would be to divi and align with a CV and sum up 100 cv games. Not a single rant where the ranted Player executed bad but not as flawed in his strat as gevlon. With the test above i could already tell him that this won’t work. I kill lone DDs in a CV. Its the hard counter at the current game state.

    Lemming hate is the perfect example: he seems to hate it because everybody hates it and you lose everytime to it. But that’s just tribal knowledge and existing meta in WoWs too. Why should he insist in playing against lemming when any ā€œskilledā€œ player proclaims it, too? Just because its ā€œbadā€œ? Thats why fara types so much:

    Everybody hates CVs because they dont have a clue how to counter it but want to stick to common knowledge – e.g. baaaad lemming.


  23. Everybody hates CVs because there AREN’T ANY COUNTERS to it, other than the ones imagined by CV players. Then everybody hates CV PLAYERS because they come over with their smug “l2p” as if ANYTHING a Shimakaze or YueYang does can counter a Midway permospotting her.

    As Gevlon said, the advice of “stick to your AA blob and wait” is just an advice to wait for the outcome of CV duel and live or die by that. It seems the only way to play in CV matches is to not play at all, and that’s coming from the CV players themselves.

    Lemming trains lose because they can only see the bows of the enemies and never get a good shot. Any wounded enemy can easily hide even behind a small island. Torpedoes hit multiple targets per salvo. Cruisers can lob shells over any small island. They lose the majority of caps. They easily get flanked. They easily get stopped by destroyers in front of them. They have to push and pushing is bad in this game.


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