Jordan Peterson and the myth of monogamy

I disagreed with “objectifying females” in gaming a decade ago and more recently too. My views on sexism didn’t change, the World went crazy over a decade, so while I was considered somewhat feminist back then, now I’m alt-right for the exact same views.

Exactly because of that, I strongly disagree with alt-right sweetheart Jordan Peterson and his idea of “forced monogamy”, even when I understood it as he meant instead of as what liberals heard.

Not like most of his pieces of advise aren’t sound (he just says common sense things which aren’t so common recently). His statements about males and females being more competent in stuff can be supported with the condition of it’s being descriptive instead of prescriptive (aka “merit-based hiring will lead to more male miners and female nurses” vs “we must hire men as miners and women as nurses”).

“Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.” “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.” “Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise, women will all only go for the most high-status men” “preventing hordes of single men from violence, he believes, is necessary for the stability of society. Enforced monogamy helps neutralize that.”

Bullshit! You know what prevents hordes of single men from violence? Armed police and prisons. The idea that the society should pay tribute to these losers is bizarre even if you completely ignore women’s rights and consider them a mere property. Our response to impoverished looting rioters is not communist redistribution of wealth but machine guns. I see no reason why should we respond differently to the demands of the “sexually impoverished”.

He is also dead wrong in the enforced monogamy nonsense. He buys into the completely unscientific idea that a few high-status males monopolize the women and that makes them inaccessible to low-status males. There is absolutely no scientific evidence of the existence of such harems. The truth is that the women are “inaccessible” because they live alone, rather than with a moron and slacker. 72% of the black American kids are with single mothers. Do you think they are secret lovers of some high-status males? If that would be the case, the kids would be from these few fathers, but no such study appeared. No, they were in a relationship with an ordinary black guy and then he became a deadbeat father. For white Americans it’s 30% and growing. I seriously doubt that those fat mamas in the trailer parks are inaccessible because they are monopolized by George Clooney and Elon Musk.

The truth is that a moron or slacker is of no use to anyone, including another moron or slacker. So they live alone, often as a literal virgin basement dweller. They are not happy and feel entitled to companionship but they wouldn’t accept their opposite-sex version, and rightfully so. Forcing people to live a strictly monogamous life wouldn’t change a thing for them. It might destroy the fun of some singles who sleep around, but it wouldn’t change them from being singles. They are singles for a reason: they cannot bring enough into a relationship to be attractive to their opposite-sex version. Bizarrely it would even backfire, because it would take their only access to sex: drunken hookups. The idea that a woman who doesn’t even want you for a drunken hookup will marry you if we take away her right to hookups is pure insanity.

However the best counterargument is that it was kind of tested in Japan, where the traditional culture is still strong. The result? 43% of millennials are virgins. It seems that monogamy did exactly what I believe it would.

Funnily, I believe the “incel movement” is a product of liberalism. Incels use liberal terms to describe themselves. The liberals didn’t just create their crazy ideas, they also created a meta-idea that “failure is because of oppression”. The incels use this on themselves, creating their own worldview where they are oppressed by the “Chads and Stacys”. The oppressive rule of sexually attractive people is of course madness, but not bigger madness than the “patriarchy”, “white supremacy” or “cishet privilege”. No. If you fail in anything (getting job, wealth, sex), that’s because you’re a failure. A moron or a slacker. The society has no responsibility, you should just fix your attitude.

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PS: no, this post doesn’t count as politics, as it endorses no candidate or aligns with no political platform. Incels are shunned by everyone for a reason.

Author: Gevlon

My blog: https://greedygoblinblog.wordpress.com/

27 thoughts on “Jordan Peterson and the myth of monogamy”

  1. Thanks. It’s a shame you don’t write about this kind of stuff more often. The reason Peterson is so popular is, unfortunately, the new world of youtube algorithms that we’re living in. You’re saying he’s nothing special and it’s all just common sense. And you’re right. But these informational bubbles we’re living in are just that – the algorithms will feed us new content on our hobbies/college courses/work related information and won’t allow us to widen our world view, unless you’re spending time and actively looking for things that are outside your comfort zone. The problem is, often times you don’t even know what to look for. Feeling that something is wrong and something is lacking does not necessarily translate to knowing the direction you need to look in.

    Back to Peterson. It’s really hard for a “common sense”, “rational advice” kind of guy to get enough traction to start being recommended by YT and start trending on social media. If you were conservative you’d see nutjobs like Alex Jones, Limbaugh and all that other “entertainment bullshit” stuff in your feed. The shift in politics in the last couple of years that has allowed for guys like Peterson to get enough popularity to get into the internet mainstream is a beautiful thing. When common sense life/psychological advice becomes mainstream, instead of gaming videos/cat videos/hollywood news/sports – that’s when we might just start having a chance.

    And btw, by “we” i mean guys like myself – i lived my whole life in a few small towns in a fringe post soviet country(Latvia), that had devastated almost everything good about the old system and adopted almost exclusively bad things from the western capitalist system. Because adopting useful western policies costs time and money. Money that is better spent on useless and semi-useless populist projects that can make you, an honest public servant, a lot of dough and help you score some points with your voters.

    I can credit the libtard movement with creating an environment that allowed Peterson to get big and help me open my eyes and allow me to finally look at my life without the bullshit “rose tinted glasses”. I lived my life as a slacker because that’s how the system molded us (i grew up in the 90s) – hard work was shunned, being dedicated and trying to aspire to things was frowned upon. The result of this education and this life is logical – i’m a stereotypical loser in my early thirties with no meaningful past and no desirable future, full of anger and frustration.

    I am sorry for such a long post, but what i’m getting at is this – “common sense” is needed like fresh air. Things that are boring and obvious to you might be a revelation to someone else out there. If there’s something you have to say – please say it, don’t be afraid to stray away from gaming posts more often. It’s always interesting to read another man’s perspective.

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  2. I agree with your conclusion, but what is your position on Monogamy vs Polygamy – which path is the best? (Or It does not make difference?)

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  3. “43% of millennials are virgins.”
    Do you think those are females? or rather 60+% of males are virgins because all the females sleep with the few high-status males (high status means good looks, not good money, by the way).

    How are you going to enforce your laws when the majority of males are the target of enforcement? who’s going to do this? You can’t do it against 80% of males.

    If you think all single males are morons and slackers you are absolutely wrong. Women can order a top 5% looks male on Tinder, home delivery included. An average looking and earning man is not good enough for a woman raised on Facebook and Instagram. According to Tinder research, 80% of males are considered below average in attractiveness (that’s after the really ugly ones have already self-selected themselves out of the pool).

    The ugly truth is that human females have mating standards somewhere between chimpanzees and orangutans. Chimp females copulate with every male (probably because they are so incredibly aggressive) while orangutans will only copulate with a male who owns a piece of his own territory. Human males are no better, I guess, but at least they can’t act out their own stupidity the way females can.

    The culture restricts male sexual pathology by making rape illegal. There is nothing wrong with restricting female sexual instincts in the same way. That’s what marriage was for and that’s what worked perfectly well for the last few millennia.

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  4. @alexmatto: it doesn’t make much difference, since people cheat for fun. It’s just a recreational activity for them that doesn’t change their public behavior (formally he is still a loving husband and a responsible father, despite in reality he hooked up with every secretary on the second floor)

    @Stawek: click link. 40% of women, 44% of men.

    My point is that the “tinder women” choose to be living single. Them having sex with random good looking guys is irrelevant. They aren’t single because of tinder-provided easy sex, they are single because they want to be and then they spice up their lives with tinder-sex. Ban tinder-sex and they’ll have sex with nobody like the Japanese.

    And yes, I do believe that (involuntarily) single men are all morons and slackers and women (even M&S women) rightfully avoid them. If you are shocked that I think about this way about 20%+ of the population, you must be new here and also never played a single video game.

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  5. All i’m gonna say is that we had a perfectly good solution for that, and it was called the colonial infantery. “You dont got shit to do in life? Come in, we got exotic brothels and when you’ll get back, you’ll be less shitty”.

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  6. JBP is not an alt-right darling. If you can handle it (actually this /pol thread is somewhat mild), here is what they actually think of him.

    https://archive.fo/8zMNU

    https://voxday.blogspot.com/2018/05/an-eminent-person.html

    –this website predates the alt-right (as a popular movement) but has compatible views. its the same as the link above.
    https://redice.tv/news/jordan-peterson-a-un-globalist-edited-a-report-for-the-high-level-panel-on-sustainable-development

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  7. I clicked the link. I don’t believe in the study at all.
    It would be world’s first, probably, with more female virgins than males.
    Males lie about having sex, females lie the opposite.

    Attractiveness is mostly achieved by being tall and having a square jaw. No amount of work and dedication will make a man taller or his face more masculine. Some can get rich, but only a few, by definition, since wealth is relative, and that only gives you a 30+ woman who’s looking for a sucker.

    There are some women who marry young, have babies and stay faithful to their families. Not enough to keep the party going, though. Japanese have 1.46 birthrate, they are heading straight towards extinction. Most of the West is the same but they allow millions of immigrants to fill in the gap.

    Oh, by the way, calling Jordan Peterson “alt-right sweetheart” means you either never heard nor read the man yourself and only rely on left-wing media or you consider every conservative an alt-righter. The actual “alt-right”, the racist fringe, hate him just as much as the left does. He vehemently opposes all groupthink, be it left or right wing. He focuses mostly on the left because the right is thoroughly marginalized in the current society and poses no danger.

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  8. @stawek:
    It is a world first. Japan is practically the only developed country with strong moral guidelines that people actually follow. While people might lie, they surely don’t lie about something embarrassing like virginity. If a 30 years old says (s)he is a virgin, you can be damn sure it’s true.

    Attractiveness is way overrated. Look at the shopping mall. The most common sight is average-looking guy and average-looking woman with their children. They are having sex (as evidenced by the kid). The men who follow incel and PUA websites and the women who follow sexy-selfie instagram bitches don’t. Finally, hard work can get you square jaw: save about $10K and get a cosmetic surgery. They get you any jaw.

    Attractiveness might get you random sex. You know what gets you sex 100%? Paying to a hooker. I wonder why do these incels don’t do that. Simple: because they don’t want sex, they want LOVE, but that has nothing to do with attractiveness, that has everything to do with matching personalities. Sure, being actively repulsive (fat, neckbeard, smelly) is a problem, but as long as one looks as a clean, healthy human, (s)he is good to go find love.

    Words mean what they are commonly used, even if the common usage comes from enemies. I’m alt-right according to redditors, and reddit dominates the gaming talk, so I’m alt-right. By the way we surely need a word to separate Trump from Paul Ryan / Koch Brothers, and alt-right is as good as any.

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  9. I don’t think Peterson means “enforced” the way you mean. I think he means, that it should be encouraged by the society as a valuable goal to strive for.
    Because it wasn’t really enforced by the government ever. It was just clear for everyone in the society, that family comes first. If you provide for your family, fucking around is OK. This is NOT the message today. If you want to fuck around go fuck around, if you want to divorce go divorce, maybe you will throw some alimony once a month and visit your kid 2 days a week. Family is not as big of a value as it was.
    I live in Hungary, I move around the agegroups of 25-35 and the amount of bitching and whining that comes from not having a meaningful relationship is overwhelming. And it is mostly because of what is represented everywhere, and what surrounds them. I got frowned on in my company because I’m getting married at the age of 28, and want to have kids. Our culture is not as monogamy (and thus family)-friendly as it could be. To quote Peterson “children raised in a family where both parents are present fare much better, and the scientific data is crystal clear on that”, so you want “normal” families in your society. Now there is a 45% of divorce rate in Hungary, so 45% of children are getting a good chance to be morons and slackers because they don’t see a good pattern to follow.
    And you can’t expect the average person to elevate above tinder, social media and advertisement, but you could make monogamy and thus family a desirable goal again (I hope at least).

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  10. Most of stuff you ascribed to Peterson doesn’t exist. He is not advocating forced coupling or anything ridiculous like that. His only point is that a culture that gives social amd cultural support towards people in monogamous relationships is more stable and long-term successful than the one that celebrates polyamory or is completely indifferent on the subject (which is the same as celebrating polyamory, really)
    Police and prisons are not sufficient to prevent hordes of men from violence, as ce be attested by any current leader of your average Middle Eastern country, and also anyone currently living in Ukraine. The thing about police is that it is functionally not very different from any average gang, right down to the protection money in the form of taxes. What separates the police from itself being a “horde of violent men” is the idea of a society that it protects and manifestation of this idea in day-to-day police behaviour. What’s happening right now is that increasingly less young men are buying into the idea of the society itself. Whether their protest takes the form of being an M&S hikikomori NEET or a violent criminial is besides the point.

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  11. monogamy is having one partner at the time. In the world of slackers and morons, forcing them to do something is a way to make them more useful. Yes, you can make suicide booths and remove slackers from crowd. Or be not so forceful and put them on jail with armed forces. Thats one way to force things. Other is cultural way to having ideal loving relationship. Those slackers and morons atleast try to have one what they have looked in the movies. They are mildly forced to focus only one partner at the time. Thats a way to make them more useful. It has some quirks and problems, like every forced method. Because human population is roughly evenly divided between 2 genders, its a easy method to influence everyone. Trick is, it even allows all the weird differences, but only if people dont slack and put some effort into it. Literally a simple way to motivate both genders to be more useful to eachother. Isnt that what you are doing in this blog the same thing? Tell the slackers how to be more useful on online games?

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  12. “If a 30 years old says (s)he is a virgin, you can be damn sure it’s true.”
    Not for women. Virginity is increasing your market value in asia significantly regardless of age. So there’s incentive to lie.

    Secondary i got suprised not too long ago myself that there was a apparently rather popular meetup website to go to japan, stay with the women and fuck her for payment. It only got shutdown after someone killed their host.(reason for appearing in news) Sounds like a tradionional mindset? And they have of course other things like host clubs where women go for the boyfriend experience. It’s far from a prude society.

    Now back to the west. “High-Status” doesn’t mean rich. High social status can be just the popular kid in high school. How else do you think do they get knocked up by peniless guys who run? It’s cause their metric is fucked in the first place. What we have today isn’t a natural course of things either. Fucking arround is advertised though media&music as desirable. Feminism sells it as freedom. Both is bs. It’s merely an Option that comes with a price and closes other options – we have plenty of statistics showing the negative sides of it. So when people say force it back it would primarily mean to advertise in the opposite direction again. The goal is to flip the perceived consensus what good behaviour is back because people largely follow just that.

    Lastly i think the main problem is still just money. You can’t build a family if you’re too poor to finance it. And that became a increasignly bigger problem for new generations of japanese youngsters just as much as western kids. You’ve got plenty documentaries of people living in their small cubicles barely surviving in their 30’s stuck in some deadend job. They won’t get out of that regardless of what they wish for. This is what then drives escapism with all the options that spawned.

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  13. @Maxim: I fully understand how he meant it. I also agree that people living in lifetime marriage for better or worse is always better for the kids.

    What I don’t believe is that polyamory is a cause of problems instead of the symptom. I believe that people don’t avoid long marriage because now they have the option to sleep around, they sleep around because they are single. Simply banning their fun won’t change them being single.

    Middle Eastern and Ukrainen violence isn’t random between MEN. These are wars between CLANS. Those people die and kill exactly for belonging to one group. Those who care about nothing has already left those zones.

    @Anon: the problem is obvious for me from video games. The M&S isn’t looking for other M&S, they look for boosters. Similarly the lazy, smelly, fat neckbeard doesn’t look for a lazy, smelly, fat legbeard. Monogamy would only lead half the population being virgins by the age of 40 instead of happy couples.

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  14. I agree on that part, that there should be no boosters, if you slack you should get no benefit from opposite genders. But i dont get how “desiring atleast one partner” makes virgins?
    I point out that cultural monogamy forces to look a partner to care, partners for amusment trough tinder, money or other recources is still available, even if they are forbidden. That means individiual might be not be technically virgin, but has no relationships in their life.

    I wonder what you should do with slackers? Armed force and jail is one option to make them useful slaves. Are there more?

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  15. IIRC Peterson’s “monogamy” is refering to what people should strive for, not something that should be enforced. He is the same guy that called out a law forcing people to use specific pronouns as unconstituional, I doubt he would also promote “forced coupling”.

    He is also specifically targeting those families with only 1 parent, which is as you said 30% in the United States. Studies have shown that children are better off having both a mother and a father in the same household (as they get different values from each) and thus get better results in life. The fact that there is such a huge percentage of single mothers is only in part due to men being deadbeat dads (that is always a factor); but primarily because during the 80s, 90s + it was heavily promoted by the State that single mothers would get significant benefits and wellfare. As a result a poor woman would ditch her poor man (who would seem like a deadbeat compared to the free welfare checks), since the money she would receive would be more than the wages of both of them. They were given the option to become 1st world slackers, and of course people jumped at the opportunity.

    Finaly, Peterson’s main ‘idea’ that he is pushing is that men primarily feel satisfaction in life when they can carry responsibilities and provide good results (aka, when they are goal oriented). Striving towards a family (aka a monogamous and long-tern relationship, instead of casual one-night Tinder dates) will be good for their own mental health, as well as provide their future children with good rolemodels and a good foundation in life. Hence why he thinks all men should aim to be family men. He’s not saying that women should be ‘given’ to all losers and deadbeats, but rather that the same ‘losers’ will benefit greatly and can become more productive if they land in a monogamous relationship.

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  16. @anon: because people who are not good enough for a longterm relationship either find a drunken hookup or stay virgins. If they dismiss the first option, they get the second.

    @tithian: if a welfare check is better than your contribution to the family, you are pretty much a deadbeat loser.

    Peterson is right that men are more satisfied when they achieve a goal than if they’re just drifting around “fun”. My point is that a good relationship is a PRODUCT of being goal oriented and not the other way. Forcing/encouraging people into relationships doesn’t make them goal-oriented.

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  17. “if a welfare check is better than your contribution to the family, you are pretty much a deadbeat loser.”

    That is already over 50% of the population. Tendency rising with encroaching automation. Add low income earners barely better than welfare and you can filter out over 70% . In addition making single-mom on welfare a profitable venture is just as much encouragement in the opposite direction by forcing others to pay up. It’s essentially boosting by the state.

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  18. @anon: because people who are not good enough for a longterm relationship either find a drunken hookup or stay virgins. If they dismiss the first option, they get the second.

    I think there is logical error on that statement in context of monogamy. To fail on longterm relationship, you must atleast want it an try to have one. If they try, they have many different options, drunken hookup, tinder, hooker or just plain luck to be on right place on right time and fall in love. If they dismiss all the options, they dont want relationship and stay virgin by their choice. I dont see the link between cultural influence how many partners are the norm and the will of the person who want to be virgin? Cultural force to have none, one or many partners wont change the will of the person to stay without relationship. I see the standards for a longterm relationship rising. Slackers on both genders need to put more effort to find and maintain a relationship and that is imho a good thing.

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  19. How does MGTOW fit into this setting? There are a lot of men, who are not M&S, but hard working, achieving individuals, who by their own choice dropped out of the mating game, no longer seeking long term relationships due to the majority of females going after asstes they feel they were “entitled” to.
    Look at this new world of snapchat and instagram!!! Kim Kardashian and thousands of other “tit-buckling” “seducing” “beauties” publish very lewd pics and gain an awful lot of followers. This gets isntantly monetized by getting Advertising deals where they put nipple cream on their tits and huzzah, another million followers and another million on their bank account.
    This is how “sexually attractive” m&s get payed…
    And how people are not getting into sexual encounters remains a mystery to me. You follow the playbook and sex happens, it can’t be avoided. Yes, maintaining a long term relationship might often seem to be difficult, means also that women with their ideal of a perfect match being a guy between the prince in Arielle and the billionaire from 50 shades of BS will have to live a very lonely life!
    And rightfully so.
    If I was a mix between the prince of Arielle and the pervy billionaire, I would fuck a different princess every single day, only to drop them right after climaxing telling them that I was just looking for my “perfect match”… Overgrown expectations that are not based on fact or reality are the problem here. Women want men they cannot get or that do not exist and men would like to mate with women with a porn star body, who cook like theri mothers and who clean the house like an east european housmaiden would… Does that sound realistic?
    And the bring into that equation “forced mongamy”? How should that be even a thing?
    Giving women that choice to find a husband intil they are 18 and if they haven’t found one at 18 they get married to a stranger at their 18th birthday? Oh , I would pay an entry fee to watch that pervy play… Without popcorn, but with barrels of lube…. 😉

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  20. @Smite: Kim and the other insta-bitches are working very hard to keep their bodies in shape and keep posting good pictures. Kim once said that she made 6000!!! selfies over a week to pick the best ones. You might despise her work (like you would with a meth lab worker), but it’s still need lot of skill and effort.

    These billionaires and insta-bitches are visible, but irrelevant minority. The majority is the invisible dude and gal in the walmart. But they are the 99%.

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  21. Monogamy has been the keyword that has been tossed around since the days that partner scarcity was considered a thing. Today, partner scarcity is simply being redefined as to what it means. Incels and MGTOW notwithstanding, the idea is that “individual happiness” is more important than producing offspring where the older, traditional attributes of being a good earner, provider and having desirable physical and emotional traits are passed on to future generations from a genetics standpoint. This applies to both men and women. I have the gut feeling that we are entering an age where people are being falsely led to believe that “social darwinism” is a better idea than producing offspring, because said offspring costs a fortune to nurture and raise. As smug as it sounds, at least the gene pool will be cleansed of these idiots.

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  22. @Gevlon
    I don’t see how being single necessitates sleeping around. All singles i know have no more than one partner at a time (granted, the circles i move in are not at all saucy).
    I can totally see how a desire to sleep around can prevent marriages, though.

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  23. @Noguff: the main problem is that people are more defined by their ideas than their genes. You don’t inherit “social justice warrior” genes, you become one. The big risk is raising a kid to 16 for lots of resources, just so he becomes some useless deadbeat. It’s probably better to influence other people’s kids to your ideas.

    @Maxim: those who desire to sleep around aren’t good marriage material anyway. You could force them to marriage, but they will cheat.

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  24. No matter what men do, women, by definition, find most men unattractive. It’s not slacking, it’s not stupidity. They are hardwired to pick the cream of the crop.
    It works perfectly fine for the animal kingdom. Humans, however, are too smart for that. If 80% of males discover themselves unfuckable they will kill the top 20% men and rape the women as they please. This is what you are advocating for, albeit you think you are progressive. If men can’t compete in looks, they will compete in aggressiveness.
    The only stable solution is if the top 20% males are actually physically capable of fighting off the other 80%. Welcome to warrior culture, which prevailed for all of the humankind everywhere and produced exactly nothing in the area of technology and progress. You think that’s how it’s supposed to be? then follow your ideas and emigrate to Somalia or some other nice place like that.
    You can’t force other people to play your game. If your rules (be good looking, be smart, get wealthy, preferably by rent seeking) disqualify most people, they will change the game to “let’s see who can gang up and kill others better”. Throughout the history it had many names, from slave revolts to communist revolution, but the pattern remains the same: societies that disown the majority of males end up in flames.

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  25. @stawek:
    Attractiveness is irrelevant. It can get you hookups, not relationships. Just look around the shopping mall and you see a bunch of unattractive women and unattractive men together with their unattractive children. This all “attractiveness” is in the head of the morons and slackers who look for an excuse for being alone (I just born without being attractive).

    Relationships are about reliability and likeability. The 20% can easily defeat the 80%, because morons and slackers are unable to form any kind of organization, including a criminal gang. It’s always lead by someone smart and hard-working. Evidence: the top 5% has as much wealth as the bottom 95% and yet there is no revolution.

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  26. Why are you trying to reason about outlier groups behaviour by looking at the majority? Outliers are defined by acting different.

    To keep with the last example of course people who don’t care about attractiveness will more likely marry each other as that removes an obstacle. That doesn’t say anything however about the unmarried singles. You don’t know how many of those are unmarried because their standards are too high and how many are unmarried for different causes. Realistically it’s not a binary scale either. You will have a distribution how much people care for each factor.

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  27. monogamy is for the poor and ugly.
    simple as that! proof? just look around! every fat chick if in a relationship is in it with a poor dude. Want more science backing this up? like JBP is a identity politics ideologue?(give me proof for that). A bit hard since feminism is the new communist party. but there are evolutionary biologists and behaviour biologists that have published even recent work Robert Sapolsky from stanfort comes to mind. Biology! The next field those gender women studies airheads will destroy for good. So take what you can until it all goes down drain.

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