Unpopular opinion: Jessica Price was fired because of Reddit outrage

Note: this post was written for the Gamergater subreddit where I’m somewhat frequent.

Let me start with a question: why was Adolf Eichmann executed? The obvious answer is that he was the architect of the Holocaust. However it’s a wrong answer. The truth is, that he was only put to trial because he was captured. Had he evade it, he could live till old age like Mengele and countless other war criminals.

Punishing someone for whatever he did needs power over him, nothing else. Stalin regularly executed people who didn’t wrong him, just to create fear and most Jews killed by the Nazis had no means or intention to harm the Third Reich, they were simple guys minding their own business until they were rounded up.

Sure, somewhat reasonable systems avoid senseless killing and create rules they abide to. In these settled systems the common sense opinion is “don’t break the rules” and those who broke it anyway “had it coming”. If the system is settled for a long time, it becomes like the air around us: obvious and invisible. We start to not see it as something that holds power and handles punishment as it see fit and only realize this truth when it stops following its own rules.

I’m afraid we are the victim of the same blindness when we attribute the firing of Jessica to her own actions. The truth is that her actions angered “us” (gamers, gaming community, redditors, Gamergaters, whatnot) but that alone means nothing else than us being angry. We are also angry on many people we can’t fire. But Jessica could be fired, because their company did not want to mess with “us”.

Let me provide a personal example why this firing was about Reddit instead of Jessica. Please check out this 2 years old reddit screenshot:

I was an approved community contributor for EVE – like Deroir for GW2 – my blog was up on the official CCP fansite list and I received a free subscription and event invitations for it. His comment was much more hostile than Jessica’s and wasn’t prompted by anything, I never communicated with him before. He simply saw the reddit link of my blogpost about a totally in-game thing and just didn’t like it. He later doubled down on it in longer, more elaborated hateposts. He did all this with his official flair on, using his company ID (go figure, his real name is not CCP Falcon, and I couldn’t be bothered to ever figure out what it was). I was far from being his only target, he made it his gimmick to bully practically anyone who had some fame in EVE.

Guess what, he still has his job! Why? Because the EVE community are a particularly toxic bunch who love to see anyone humiliated. You probably heard of the incident when the main show of the official player gathering was about trying to bully a suicidal guy to actually off himself. With officially approved PowerPoint slides and everything. So – as you can see from the screenshot – they took the comments with cheers and the subreddit mods even created a new flair “dev roast” for it.

My point is that the Polygon article – despite obvious inaccuracies – is correct. She was fired because enough guys got mad at her and the management didn’t want bad blood with “the community”.

Despite I strongly disagree with everything Jessica stands for, I am unhappy with this turn of events. I know that while the feminist-antiracist-SJW gang held power over the gaming industry, they got fired many good and innocent guys, like the Subnautica sound dev whose only crime was a lighthearted “Attack Helicopter gender” joke and some modest conservative statements that you can hear on mainstream TV. But now that the tables turned with the election of Trump and KC:D success and #walkaway and everything – now that “we” are the top dogs – I absolutely don’t want us to become them. I hate SJWs exactly for trying to bully and silence instead of discuss. I don’t want us to silence and bully anyone, I want us to discuss and reason with people who disagree with us. I would try to reason and argue even with Anita Sarkeesian, despite I’m fully aware that she would silence and ban and fire me if she could. I don’t see that as an excuse to silence, ban or personally destroy her, because I’m better than her and most importantly, I want to build a better world than her, one that is based on peaceful discussion instead of “the momentarily stronger kills the weaker”.

Telling “Jessica had it coming” or “she was fired for her own actions” mean that the speaker subscribes to the idea that firing people we don’t like is just and appropriate. It’s not. She didn’t sabotage development, she was just mean on the internet. That should not be a reason for someone losing her livelihood and become unemployable anywhere but some partisan fake news site making up nonsense about Trump and Putin. I believe the Polygon article that many SJW devs are now living in fear. I know that fear, I switched blog provider from google owned blogspot.com after the Damore incident and the youtube purge that my blog will be deleted. I don’t want SJWs to fear. I don’t even want Anita to fear. I want them to come around and sit down for a discussion of ideas instead of swinging real or cyber bike locks.

.

PS: I don’t even want CCP Falcon be fired for his hateful comments on me and others. I do want him fired for covering up the monument vandalism (it was told they are banned but they were not and their identities were protected, police was not contacted). And for trying to rip the community for $150000 with his buddies.

PS2: little Warships update:
cuts
It increases DPS significantly, but it’s horribly slow. The ship can outturn its torpedo launchers with aiming systems modification.

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Author: Gevlon

My blog: https://greedygoblinblog.wordpress.com/

28 thoughts on “Unpopular opinion: Jessica Price was fired because of Reddit outrage”

  1. No, she was fired for insulting a customer. the polygon article also miss’s the point. It wasn’t a “fan” she called a rando asshat: IT WAS A PAYING CUSTOMER!

    Look if you came into my supermarket and complained to me about anything you like (no stock on shelves, queues at tills or even a whiney kid on the next aisle) I have to a) acknowledge you and b) pretend to care and MOST of all c) remain polite throughout the whole dam interaction. No matter how rude you are. If I tell you to do one, guess what? Im fired.

    This is how it should be. Its called customer service. You DO NOT insult your customers. Falcon should have been fired for insulting you. Price was deservedly sacked not cos shes an sjw (I couldnt care less about her politics), but because she was rude and insulting to paying customers of the company. She can say anything she likes in her own time, but when she starts making “dev” posts she represents her employers. At that point she HAS to respect their customers or she imperils their business. Put it another way what would you think of 4 guys wearing a macdonalds uniform walking into kfc (kentucky fried chicken) and trashing the place? Asking the customers if its finger licking good while they peed in the bins? In civilian clothes they just get arrested and maybe a fine and a night in a cell. In maccies uniform they are FIRED because they represented maccies when they did it.

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  2. If you think that “we are the top dogs”.
    I think you are mistaken by far. It’s true that people voted for trump, but the left is winning on far more grounds than the right. SJW movement is getting into power at more and more places.

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  3. @nightgerbil: The problem with that thinking is that we live our private life more and more on the internet when random guys can thresspass. You can’t call a whiny customer idiot at his face. But at the pub with your buddies you can. Now imagine that he has ears in EVERY pub and EVERY garden where you grill and then complains to the manager.

    I believe the “customer is always right” nonsense could only be upheld because we could isolate the customers to our working hours. Now it’s impossible. Everything you say is up for everyone to see. Now we have two options:

    * we behave submissively towards customers of our employers 24/7

    * we don’t and the employer just live with it (sure I’m not talking about extreme go-out-of-way attacks, just how a normal person would handle an annoying random nobody)

    I bet the second will win.

    @PyDuck: wrong. The left is getting into power in lots of irrelevant places, typically in culture. For example they took complete control over the NFL and managed to use it to constantly protest Trump on games by kneeling during the anthem. What happened? The whole NFL lost awful lot of customers and they had to retreat. The places the lefties capture have no power over anybody who doesn’t want to be there and there is no compelling interest to be there.

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  4. “she was just mean on the internet.”

    That doesn’t accurately reflect what she did. She attacked one of her company’s high profile customers unprovoked after he offered a polite comment about the company’s product. That’s completely different from someone getting fired for making some random borderline offensive comment. We can argue over whether she should have been fired or just disciplined somehow, but no sane business would tolerate her behavior.

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  5. Heres the thing though gevlon: she wasnt laughing down the pub at some rando asshat trying to tell HER how to write. She went on twitter and gave a long and eloquent talk about how she writes for her employers. Her thinking behind it, her methodolgy and how it relates to the industry standard. She was then asked a question by A PAYING CUSTOMER and her response was to insult him. At that point shes done. I would be done. You would (or ought to be) done. She was representing her employers in a public forum at that point in time.

    also this isn’t about the customer always being right. I apologise on behalf of the company all the time even when my customer is a complete tit. I NEVER insult them. They won’t always get what they want, but they never get insulted. All she had to do was ignore the comment. Or explain politely why it doesn’t work (ie the need to drop 300 million on yr mmo to handle all the voice acting).

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  6. It was not that the Price incident was mishandled, more like CCP let the Falcon one slide due to corporate culture. One says “customer service exists” while the other is the reason why I am now of the opinion that CCP doesn not care about its playerbase. Just because it was the norm for devs to be asshats online, it doesn’t mean it should continue. A century ago it was perfectly fine to beat women with a broom handle, guess what, times change and now it has reprecussions.

    “The problem with that thinking is that we live our private life more and more on the internet when random guys can trespass.”

    Random guys can trespass if you open the doors and let them right on in. If you want, you don’t have to live your life on social media. I don’t. My friends don’t. If I want to have a discussion with them online about X, I create a PRIVATE group and we talk there. Posting on your wall or Twitter feed is not “living your private life”, it’s the equivalent of taking a megaphone, going to a stadium and yelling at the top of your lungs, trying to get heard. If you spew bigotry, get ready to get smacked down. It’s that simple.

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  7. @tithian: you missed the point. Falcon didn’t get away because of corporate culture, but because of lack of outrage. The same corporate culture provided official powerpoint slides for The Mittani to bully someone into suicide and when the outrage arrived, the did a 180 and banned him for 30 days.

    My point is that if GW2 redditors and EVE redditors would be replaced with each other, then Jessica would have her job and Falcon would not. This isn’t about right and wrong, merely about raw power.

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  8. @PyDuck: fresh college educated people were always lefties. Then they got their first tax form and turned conservative. Nothing new here. Most current conservative leaders were getting high in Woodstock

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  9. Interesting to see the typical postmodern reasoning coming from you.
    The idea that Jessica wasn’t wrong or offensive, only that the offended party happened to have power behind him, is exactly the “relativity” bullshit we’ve been hearing for the last decades.
    Eichmann was executed because he was a mass murderer. If Mengele or a few others escaped punishment it doesn’t negate that fact. Being captured was a necessary component to his punishment, but if you follow the logic then there is only one explanation for everything that ever happened: “because Big Bang”. It may be true but it’s a thoroughly useless and meaningless idea.

    She lost her job for insulting customers. It’s an objectively wrong thing to do and almost everybody doing it loses their job. Unless the company itself is corrupt (like possibly CCP) or has a very unique corporate culture (again, like possibly CCP. After all they made an official HDFU music clip).

    “Somewhat reasonable systems avoid senseless killing”. This is the key to the whole idea. Being “somewhat reasonable” is a hard limiting restraint on systems. You can’t just create any arbitrary rules and act them out, even if everybody agrees to those rules. If it isn’t “somewhat reasonable” then the effects of such a system will create an unstable and self-destructing society which will eliminate itself in a relatively short time. Which is exactly why Stalinism died shortly after his own death and why communism inevitably leads to totalitarian hellholes.

    Nice of you to want her to keep the job. You prefer discussion, rather than forcing people out. Newsflash: you don’t get to make the decision about discussing when your opponents refuse to talk. Not sure which language the saying comes from but “you need to get the camel’s attention first by hitting it with a stick”. That’s the point: Jessica considered herself above the man in question (on the virtues of being a professional developer and a woman) so she refused to discuss. Now she knows better, though I have no doubt she could get a job at Google or Facebook, where being a “victim of oppression” will only add points to her resume.

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  10. @Stawek: I do not believe in moral relativity. I simply don’t believe in moral at all, only utility. Hitler wasn’t bad because he killed all those people, but because he (was doomed to) failed to create a society that can carry out his plans. Please note that not only Mengele avoided punishment, but practically everyone in the Chinese communist system that killed much more innocent people than Hitler. Why? Because they succeeded in creating a functioning system that lives today, so people are happy to ignore all those dead people.

    Why does something happen? Because someone had a power to do it. However we can objectively analyze how can someone get power. For example we can point out that Nazism necessarily put everyone in adversary position to the Nazis (because they proclaimed to be higher being than everyone else), while the Chinese communism didn’t. So we can conclude that you should not subscribe to ideas that are on a collision course with everyone. So we are in complete agreement about the Stalin paragraph. Which is why I suppose discussion and analysis instead of fighting.

    If you look up Jessica’s twitter, you notice that her behavior was consistent for years. She always looked down on men and was dismissive and abusive. Yet nobody fired her, because the company didn’t care until the redditors made them care.

    I don’t think that it’s my place to discuss with Jessica or the GW guy’s place. I’m sure that there are many coworkers in Anet who were forced to regularly discuss thing with her. These discussions could form and better her. Instead, she is cast out from a place of (relative) reason and forced to some SJW hellhole (like you pointed out), where her extremism will be reinforced and nurtured. I’m afraid the day may come when we’ll meet her with guns in the hands of everyone. “We” pushed her away from an ideologically diverse place into the arms of the worst militant SJWs.

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  11. @Gevlon You have your facts about the NFL situation inverted. The players did not protest Trump. They protested the frequent shootings by US police of unarmed black men. It was Trump who was protesting the players protesting. Until Trump got involved, many of the NFL owners were ambivalent about the kneeling because it was not really affecting their bottom line. They backed down when Trump threatened them. Now the NFL player association (ie union) is suing the owners to get the new restriction removed.

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  12. Is insulting part of the freedom of the speech? I think it is. Simply because everything what you say can be insulting to someone. What is not allowed is slandering. Damaging someone’s reputation by making a false spoken statement about them. If you insult someone, intended or not, you take responsiblity of your words. If asked, you must explain on what facts or truths its based on. If you ignore explaining, insult becomes slandering and it is punishable, without conflicting to the freedom of speech.

    If you are customer, you have right to be rude and even insult service provider mishaps. But you get responsiblity of your words, what means you might not get service if you are rude. I know, there are alot of alternatives and competition is high, what means paying clients can be assholes without ever taking responsiblity of it. Until they want to be served on a business what has no alternatives. Then they suddenly get the responsiblity and have problems with it. If you pay for something, it usually gives no right to cheat and being rude. Paying should only give privileges to being heard first, either solve the problem what you have or remove you as a customer.

    Same takes it other way around, but its way more harsh to employers. If they are constantly rude, they usually lose their clients, so they have very strict responsiblity of their words. If they are on business, with few or none competitors or demand is high, they can even make the rules how they can serve the customers. And customers will allow it, or they lose te service. Only surgeon on big city can be asshole to everyone, because his/her skills are more valuable as his/her behavior.

    What is right, is gevlon way to solve the problem. Instead of removing voice from the rude person, in this case Jessica, he wanted that she takes responsiblity of the words and discuss the point of view. She might not even know what she is done wrong if noone explains it.

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  13. @Gevlon

    Welcome to the natural end result of ceding power to corporations and thinking of things only in utility terms. Eventually, we will get a future in which AI/bots will monitor our social media activity 24/7, and get fired (and lose health insurance in the US) based on the prevailing social mores of the day. And since corporations have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to maximize profit, they will act this way every time, by design.

    The only thing that could save us from this sort of dystopia are unions and government regulation, but… well. Let me know how the people you support feel about those things.

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  14. For heaven’s sake! Gevlon! You miss the point!
    Price was bullying a customer! Period! Nothing more. Now, depending on the corporate culture, there might be companies that do not fire employees for misbehaving against customers and then there are well run companies who do fire and do not tolerate such behaviour.

    Yes, there was not a lot of outrage for CCP falcon’s behaviour towards you, but then, you were never popular in the EVE community and a lot of people that you had beef with applauded, as did their fanboys. Wile I agree with you that Falcon is a fucktard who should be fired and served some of his own medicine, this does not change the fact that the outrage was never high and was never a reason to act upon.

    CCP covered Shittani with this ridiculous 30 day ban, he should have been banned for life!

    As for whining about having to be polite to customers 24/7.. That is the risk of being vocal on social medias. Therefore, much more reflection needs to take place before “ambien texting”…

    She deserved to be fired and she should look for the next to be a job where presence on social media is heavily regulated!

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  15. “Why does something happen? Because someone had the power to do it” … and the rules of our Universe do not preclude it happening.

    Some things we know, from painful experience, to produce bad outcomes. That’s why we call them immoral. It isn’t “our” morality, we didn’t make it, only discovered it. Your changing it to “utility” is putting the cart before the horse. If you say “Hitler was bad because he didn’t succeed” then your thinking is completely useless as it cannot be used to make decisions. After all, Hitler couldn’t know he was going to fail until he actually failed. If I say “Hitler was immoral while he was acting and his failure only proved his immorality” it means Hitler could have changed his actions based on existing moral guidance. Maybe if he re-read Nietzsche and understood what he meant by Uber Mensh he’d do better.

    Mengele avoiding punishment is a complete non sequitur. How does an unrelated event (avoiding capture) influence the moral value of another act? Was Hitler good because I ate porridge today?

    “Thou shalt not offend thy customers” is there for a reason. It’s one of the basics of corporate morality. Some people get away with it but it doesn’t invalidate the general rule.

    You could not discuss with Jessica because she refused to take part. Now she has no choice but to discuss, if only with herself, the possibility that maybe, somewhere along the line, she had made a mistake. After all her bad outcome suggests she had acted in an imperfect manner. If she’s still blaming the patriarchy, well, there are worse things still ahead of her.

    The original meaning of the word “sin” means to miss the mark, to be wrong. If you keep being wrong you end up in hell (meaning a very bad outcome). At any point, you can look at yourself, recognize your errors (sins) and honestly try to change yourself for the better.

    This is the basic Judeo-Christian morality, no God necessary. It requires the individual to actually reflect on herself, especially when disasters happen. If Jessica refused discussion and reflection then a disaster was inevitable.

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  16. @gevlon – I think stawek is trying to explain the concept of “necessary but not sufficent” to you. Your Nazi example requires actually three things:

    1. Wrongdoing
    2. Power to prosecute
    3. Desire to prosecute

    Take any one out, and you have no prosecution. There might be other necessary elements as well. For example, to execute someone, the person still has to be alive. I can make the claim that being alive is the whole key to being prosecuted as a Nazi, and the power to prosecute means nothing. You pick “power” very arbitrarily. You are just playing weird logic games or something. It is not a coherent theory. Any necessary element can be pointed at as a “cause”.

    Also your utilitarian theory needs much more flushing out. What includes utility? Does the suffering and death of millions enter into the equation? Surely that is negative utility. Let’s say Hitler managed to kill everyone except his own family and then lived out his life happily in a peaceful, empty country. What a successful regime – let’s model it! Also the idea that, for example, modern Sweden and North Korea are equally valid political systems, assuming they both survive for say 100 years, is just nuts. It fails to take into account the utility of the happiness of their respective citizens.

    Back to Jessica, the answer is obvious. She lashed out at a customer/content provider. Her employer, who has always had the power to fire her, and perhaps had sufficient basis to fire her in the past due to her past transgressions (though it is not clear they were aware of this), finally got the desire to fire her because enough people were actually put off by her. Whatever she has said before obviously did not cause sufficient commotion, even though it may have been very similar in nature. Personally I am ok with her keeping her job, but also ok with her being fired. I am sure she will bounce back fine and hopefully will be more diplomatic with customers in the future.

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  17. @Nielas: Black Lives Matter was strongly aligned with Hillary and against Trump. Claiming that a BLM protest isn’t anti-Trump is like claiming that anti-abortion activists are not pro-Trump.

    @Someone: “rando asshat” isn’t slandering. It’s practically “I don’t like you”. Jessica has the right to dislike anyone and not engaging in discussion with him. She never claimed that the other parties are guilty in anything.

    @Azuriel: wrong, because Jessica will surely get a job in some lefty company. One’s “thought criminal” is the “thought hero” of the next man. The companies will serve different kinds of people, there will be D and R restaurants, games, films, everything.

    @Smite: so you agree or disagree with the statement that “you can bully customers as long as they are not popular”?

    @Stawek: how come that Stalin and Mao got away with the same immoral acts that got the downfall of Hitler? It’s you who are putting the cart ahead of the horse. Hitler’s failure could be predicted from the fact that his system needed wars (to get “living space”) while the other two did not and wars are never surefire actions.

    Wrong again. Jessica has now no one but rabid feminists to discuss with, will come to the conclusion that she was wrongfully attacked by the patriarchy and will lend a good job in some SJW place. Don’t be so surprised if she’d show up as someone who decides which videos to ban on Youtube.

    @eatenbyagrue: NO. I claim that you don’t need “wrongdoing”, just desire and power to prosecute. The powerful ones can and usually do prosecute innocents.

    Yes, I do claim that if both Sweden and North Korea survives 100 years, they are equal. I also claim that it’s very unlikely that either one will make it (Sweden will fall because of migration, North Korea will thaw as the elite want more and more Western stuff and that needs trade). If happiness is an important factor, than the most successful system is a drug addict gang.

    Your expectations will fail. She will get to an SJW company where lashing out to white males is encouraged.

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  18. @gevlon regarding happiness, yes, because the happiness of avoiding gulags for yourself and your family for saying the wrong thing is equal to a lifetime of drug abuse, right? This is nuts logic. Yes happiness is important. But no, pure hedonism with no regard for future is not desirable. You are being dishonest by conflating the two.

    Honestly I feel like posting every day is not doing you good. You post completely incoherent theories. Take a week or two and think it all the way through.

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  19. Let me add another perspective to this discussion.

    I think the issue is entierly diffrent, then stated here and it is free speach. You say Jessica insulted a customer. Did she though? Where has it happened? On HER twitter account. It was not a company account. Did the “insulted” snowflake (term is appropriate, as somobody getting uppity over talk like this over twitter ia no diffrent then all the rest of snowflakes) pay her for access to her account? No. She insulted (if that) a random person encountered in a semi-personal space on her own time. If we consider this grounds for fireing, then Im quite certain everybody in the world is lieble to get fired tomorrow. There is no value higher then free speach, if that is threatened every other value becomes threatened. Therfore, I compleatly agree with Gevlon. This was the wrong thing to do on any level. Be it tactical or stratigical. The conservative side is makeing a big mistake following in the SJW footsteps and it will backfire.

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  20. “now that “we” are the top dogs – I absolutely don’t want us to become them. I hate SJWs exactly for trying to bully and silence instead of discuss. I don’t want us to silence and bully anyone, I want us to discuss and reason with people who disagree with us.”

    I do not understand why you believe that the game of politics ends because you are in power. This belief that you have to put the kiddy gloves on because you won is not based in reality, and that’s not how your opponents play the game. When left leaning individuals are in power they slam through as much legislation that they can, pack the courts, and weaponized institutions like the IRS to financially harm their political opponents. They responded to everything conservatives said, and viciously attacked people that exposed themselves to the outrage mob.

    You are essentially advocating that conservatives return to values of George Bush, Mitt Romney, John McCain, and evangelical moralism. This political idealism failed spectacularly already.

    Donald Trump, The Tea Party, and “gamergate” have, either intentionally or unintentionally, used alinsky-esque organizing and outrage politics against democrats and liberal individuals to great success.

    This is illogical. To me you’re saying.

    “We must stop using the tactic that works, because now that we’re in power it would be unethical to try to stay in power”

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  21. @Anon: no. We should pack courts, do as much legislation as we can and hunt down political organizations. We should be ruthless against any SJW activity and group.

    However I say attacking individuals for their beliefs is counterproductive and the zeal how the left attacked right wing individuals is the main reason of their defeat. If you go after an individual in his personal (non political) activity, you just make him hate you more and FORCE him to fight back.

    Jessica used to spend most of her time writing lore for GW2. Now she has nowhere else to go than an SJW organization where she’ll be writing slogans all her time. Tell me how that helps us?

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  22. I think attacking people with broad generalizations is counter productive, but I don’t think the democratic zeal for witch hunts is what damaged them. It was the rhetorical and logical leaps they had to make to justify them that didn’t stick with the public, for now.

    For example:
    “Donald Trump, a republican, is against illegal immigration”
    “Donald Trump, a republican, is against immigration”
    “Donald Trump, a republican, is a xenophobe because he is against immigrants”
    “Donald Trump and republicans are racist”

    This technique has been working for 50+ years. It failed with Trump, but Trump could easily be uniquely impervious for some reason. Like Ronald Reagan was.

    For understanding the context it’s important to say it’s highly likely the American divisions of NCsoft are SJW organizations. Jessica’s co-workers defended her on twitter, this wasn’t her first event of using “liberal dog whistles”, and she had publicly celebrated totalbiscuit dying of cancer. I feel like you can reasonably say that an organization that allows this is probably SJW.

    Jessica and her co-worker don’t really matter. What matters is that conservative/anti-sjws were able to exert enough pressure to get a SJW sympathetic company to throw one of their own under the bus. It’s a demonstration of demographic power and the effectiveness of tactics that can be replicated. Companies need to know that catering to extreme leftists has consequences. This is a very good example of how to do it.

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