Having a team vs being social

I had to delete record amount of trolls on my post about having a team in PUBG. They claimed that I’m a social after all, needing peers around me. While most of them probably just wanted to insult, I assume some honestly can’t tell the difference, so it’s better to explain.

I do not know the names of my teammates. I don’t know what countries they came from. I don’t know their genders, ages, skin and hair colors. I don’t care. I’ll probably never meet them, I’ve never chatted them about anything but PUBG strategies.

Socials would call these “using other people as objects”. This wouldn’t be wrong, however it implies one-sidedness. There is none, they use me as an object just as much as I use them. We want the same goal: getting higher on the PUBG toplist. We both perform the optimal strategy and one of us lives longer than the other, “carrying him” to higher position. Of course – as the game has huge luck factor – it’s impossible to tell who will live longer. Player skill helps with reaching really high positions, like #2-4, but nothing helps against finding no car and being hit by one, or simply going to a very safe looking house and finding a squad inside. Nothing helps against dying at the bottom half that could ruin the position by giving more negative points than what 2x #2 could fix. But having even a total newbie on the team helps this scenarios, turning a #40 position into a #10. So even when a top player is in duo with a total newbie, both get rewards.

Having a team is having common goals. It’s about mutually and consensually “using” each other as tools for our goals. It’s not about liking or knowing each other, it’s not about hanging out. It’s about goals, nothing else.

We will dominate the top charts. Anyone joining our group will be in the top 1000 (assuming intellectual function over a prion-ridden cow). This needs a team. It doesn’t need friends (even if Steam calls the feature “friends”).

If you want to reach higher in the most popular game than all the famous “l33t” streamers, join (by adding Gevlon as “friend”). You won’t get lovely human feelings, but you sure as hell will get results.

Author: Gevlon

My blog: https://greedygoblinblog.wordpress.com/

12 thoughts on “Having a team vs being social”

  1. Well, with reference to the comment I left last post:

    I understand that you don’t want to know their name. And, they don’t have to tell you. (In this context, it would be stupid for you to even ask.)

    The “Hierarchy of Needs” in this context won’t apply to you, of course. But you have to understand… some of these other people might understand that at the end of the day, this is only a game. You may need to tolerate their “Hierarchy of Needs” to keep them interested.

    Keep that in mind if participation starts to dwindle. You can’t just assume that all your volunteers are as motivated as you are.

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  2. You constantly insist that “being social” is that it is about liking or hanging out. Despite being one of those “trolls” that called you out on finally exhibiting social tendencies, i’m not the one to “hang out”. In fact, most of my interactions are goal-oriented. That, however, doesn’t make me asocial.
    Being social is about moderating your own point of view on the world through other people. Some do it by “Hanging out” and are, in fact, seemingly able to – in some respects – successfully augment their understanding of the world much faster and better than i ever could.

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  3. Maxim:
    “Being social is about moderating your own point of view on the world through other people. Some do it by “Hanging out” and are, in fact, seemingly able to – in some respects – successfully augment their understanding of the world much faster and better than i ever could.”

    But this very moderation through others is the dangerous part that Gevlon is criticising.
    Reality stops being what is and becomes what others think it is – but those others are social as well and will form their understanding through their peers, creating the echo chambers we can observe all around us.

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  4. well if you have the time and energy to filter for excellence. go do that. I have to do that in RL on my job (not career!) and have not the energy as an old-fart (40+) to talk to kids. I game with a buddy and we know each other for decades now. So we pretty much know exactly what the other will do in what ever game and situation. sure to have more of these people would be great.

    BDO – what is there that a group would be good for. #1 holding cities? well yeah the only thing really. #1 ranking in the ranking tab? no one can really help with that. Maybe growth because a well organised and dedicated group can hold the best grind spots without getting pushed of the spot by others. response and aid has to be very fast tho like in UO or EQ and never saw this past early Aion days.

    Most MMOs these days feel like fancy singleplayer.

    MMOs in general. If the game has somewhat decent marketplace, you obviously do that for currency. for PVE most group content can be DUOed the class and abilities needed will also be the very core you need for outnumbered openworld pvp. with that in mind you go hard learn mechanics and make currency. If raid content items are ~30%+ better as what is obtainable as solo or duo, we then bought lootright and spots. back in the day it was easier because of the reputation one builds on the server. But it’s still valid today, if games have that group powercreep build in, most MMOs these days don’t.

    But to each their own. We both don’t like waiting in the evening and organising people.

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  5. Look I think the major disconnect between you and many readers is not that your focus on team productivity is invalid. It’s just that you do not seem to acknowledge the validity of other joys. Goals are great, but they cannot be a the total picture, or what is the point of living. I mean yes, you have to work to produce value to exist in modern society, but if that is taken care of, there is nothing wrong with a controlled period of hedonism – activity where the joy of the activity is the main goal, and positive effects of the activity on future well-being are not of concern.

    That I think is the burden you have not met. How can you argue that joy cannot be a valid goal? Granted, it cannot be the only goal.

    Also, you really gloss over the criticisms that any gaming is really of limited benefit to future you by pointing out some benefits of gaming. However, this is not really a valid defense. For example, instead of video games, you could engage in more physical recreation type sports. There you could advance your theories and get in better shape. You could also instead try to start a business, where you could also further your ideas and also accumulate real world capital. You could use this real world capital in similar ways you used EVE capital, but much more impactfully, as this is the real world now. And while the real world is not free of corruption, you would surely have many more tools to fight the “falcons” of the world, as there is not the absolute dictatorship of the developer to slave under. But you choose not to do this, but stick with the relatively easy world of video games (despite hating the developers, you willingly choose to exist under their authority). So you are slacking, by your own standards.

    Now I am not actually criticizing you for gaming, as I think it is fine – we all do our own things that we find joy in. But by your own really strict standards, you are kind of slacking by going for the low hanging fruit of gaming, and you are really just hanging out a “fig leaf” defense of the activity by pointing out a few benefits, but glossing over the fact that it is largely a huge time sink that could rob you of other opportunities, and the benefits it gives could easily be gotten elsewhere with more productive activities.

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  6. Also by extension, even within the context of a game, if you entire remove the social interaction, you are just creating a recipe for burnout. Is there a place for humor in the workplace or recreation? Humor is such an essential human element. Perfect should not be the enemy of the good. By snuffing out all human interaction except that which is necessary for goal accomplishment, I think you create a system which most people will not endure for long.

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  7. @eatenbyagrue: While I can’t formally condemn joys, I can objectively say that if you want joy, you should use drugs as they provide the maximum joy. If you have no access to drugs, you should get drunk or engage in as much sex and masturbation as you physically can.

    If you don’t do it, you are – at least implicitly – aware that joy isn’t the top goal of our life.

    In real life I write a blog that many real people, including you are reading and learn from it. How is it not an achievement?

    You could say that I should write about real life wealth generation, but that’s not possible due to corporate NDAs and laws. Also, my professional life – every professional life – is specific and you can’t really use my advice in your life. If you are interested, here is a true real life work: I’m now designing a new chemical plant. I can’t show you any screenshots because it’s corporate secret. You couldn’t read it if I did, unless you are an engineer yourself with specific knowledge on the field of large scale inorganic processes.

    On the other hand we can all relate to games and use them as examples. There is a reason why children are taught using textbooks and practice fields instead of just driving them to various factories and make them learn on the job and creating some value in the process. These imaginary tasks in the textbooks and sports and science projects are better to teach them skills, even if they are unproductive themselves.

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  8. eatenbyagrue: Is there a place for humor in the workplace or recreation?
    Nope. you use these things as a tool to one-up on competition. A Workplace is where work gets done. you have colleagues not friends there. with some exceptions like military “brothers in arms” but even there the more professional types with less M&S and more discipline tend to be better of. Anyway if you feel proud about your work and can do it light-hearted with a genuine smile on your face, more power to you. most jobs tend to be not that it is hard enough just to hold a neutral friendly stance for 10 hours a day with some few minute breaks here and there 6 days a week. If you can manage to be not resentful and spiteful. I guess that is a win in itself.

    the human interaction gets patches out of games by the day. where in pre-WOW games PK was a livestyle in itself and a pvp kill could endup in loss of items and progress. there is virtually no penalty on a pvp kill in todays MMOs openworld encounters if at all end up in a emote exchange.

    I’m a firm believer of grief PVP. pre-wow griefers where known, kill response didn’t take long. and yes “a servers faction responded” not just a guild. they tried to reclaim the lost items of the death or simply have the same loss of progression inflicted on the griefer. whiteknight countered PKers and a whole dynamic emerged. Besides the tons of hate this produced in the end these enforced pvp evenings where the most memorable things ever done. they where the most unpredictable outnumbered fights I ever had. plus with real penalty and loss in death these fight where the most thrilling ever! not just for me but for most of the “victims” too. I didn’t just get hate/anger mail … most longterm contacts formed out of these encounters.

    Death means nothing today. So interaction means nothing today.

    todays postmodern communist SJW indoctrinated idiots – can’t be griefed. they demand immediate safespace changes to the system if in what ever rainbow crazed illusion they got “oppressed” or “damaged” … and publishers / devs cave.

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  9. @gevlon Your activity and blog definitely add value and are valid, despite being of suboptimal benefit to yourself. And they apparently bring you some joy, despite not being the best use of your time. In fact, readers get way more benefit from them than you do, but you do it because you like it, despite what I imagine is a very large time commitment. That is my point. My hypothetical was for the purpose of showing the implausibility of your views on joy.

    Drugs, alcohol, sex, masturbation, sure they are some kind of joy. But the human condition is such that we get bored with too much of the same joy, so we want different kinds of joy. Sometimes flirting is more enjoyable than the sex, etc. Sometimes we are married and cannot do everything we want. Hence parties with friends (and blogs). Also drugs and alcohol can be habit forming, depriving one of too much other joy.

    @anonymous properly placed humor can be used to form meaningful connections, useful to establish trust. When both of you find something funny, you share a visceral experience. Too much is counterproductive, but spreading a little joy at work – nothing wrong with that. As to your views on PvP, well it’s just that people spoke with their wallets. I have zero objections to people playing this way, and might even try it myself. However, not enough people wanted to play your way. You want the developers to lose money? Perhaps you should fund such a venture yourself and see if it is a good business model.

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  10. @anonymous properly placed humor can be used to form meaningful connections, useful to establish trust. When both of you find something funny, you share a visceral experience. Too much is counterproductive, but spreading a little joy at work – nothing wrong with that. As to your views on PvP, well it’s just that people spoke with their wallets. I have zero objections to people playing this way, and might even try it myself. However, not enough people wanted to play your way. You want the developers to lose money? Perhaps you should fund such a venture yourself and see if it is a good business model.

    no good deed goes unpunished.

    Try spreading your love on the stock market floors or any other highly competitive position. I’m not talking service jobs, where it can come in very handy to be plain joyful to help with the fake positivity on hotline or costumer service desks. it is still a tool to manipulate others so you get into a better position for profit.

    people are lazy and don’t want to work for their entertainment. I did and still do even with all the restriction and PK penalties. I usually don’t go for the instant gratification. it certainly takes longer these days and it is rare to get the response of the old days. But every now and then it happens and everyone involved got their brain-chemical doses. I dedicate my entertainment budged accordingly and my freetime. Gamedesign or development isn’t my expertise at all, sure I could invest but game-investment is a whole other topic. I think it is enough to multiaccound (if the MMO in question benefits from multiple accounts) on my part. or give something like a “month sub” worth every month if I really enjoy the game.

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