Rock bottom. Total nihil.

Back when I published my “finish most Subnautica without building a thing” run, I posted it in the game’s subreddit and got the following “intelligent” reply:
nihil

This is the lowest thing I’ve seen in a long time. This human being has no other aspiration than feeling good. I wonder why he has a computer at the first place, instead of just buying alcohol and drugs. Those are more “fun”. The only way this capital moron could get through life is welfare, there is no way he is a useful member of the society. Which is the reason why we must fight for competitive, hard games – mostly by giving them money and never giving a dime to “fun” games. The next generation and the people on the edge must experience the satisfaction of winning after a hard fought battle, or the vindication of winning after losing first. The “fun” games take this away and replace it with the shallow “look shiny” and “meaningless reward for every meaningless thing you do” gameplay.

We don’t want to be this subhuman. Every time you’d think of “well, yes, but this is a game after all”, think of this creature! Do you want something that contribute to multiplying this thing?!

.

PS: if you want a dose of the crazy-liberal movement, here is a list of “microaggressions” (racist, sexist statements) from a crazy-liberal college. Hint: “I believe the most qualified person should get the job.” is a racist statement according to these crazies.

Author: Gevlon

My blog: https://greedygoblinblog.wordpress.com/

38 thoughts on “Rock bottom. Total nihil.”

  1. I recommend deleting this post.

    …otherwise, could you perhaps explain in greater detail the ways someone who enjoys playing a game (or toy, if you prefer) is a subhuman welfare leech that contributes nothing to society and is better off not reproducing? And it seems especially strange to imply said person should consume alcohol and drugs instead, which are things more commonly associated with stereotypical leech.

    But perhaps there is something I am missing from your argument. After all, I can’t imagine, just based on this post, how much you must loathe people who watch television or movies or, heaven forbid, read books for fun. Just sitting there, passively absorbing stimuli with zero competitive elements… ugh! Those people must be the worst, am I right?

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  2. Jesus Christ. Whenever I see how crazy liberals got in the “West” I am fucking glad that I live in Eastern Europe(Hungary).
    I could make 3x as much money in the Netherlands and 5x as much in the US as an engineer but that’s not enough compensation to get me moving to a country like this…
    I am wondering if ordinary people are like this also, or this is just some vocal minority dominating the media the last few years…

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  3. The document in your PS is comedy gold. The “myth of meritocracy” bit makes me think that this was written by someone who is 17 years old, max.

    I also chuckled pretty hard how implying that “All Asians are intelligent and good in Math / Sciences” is actually something that would cause grievances and is seen as a negative thing. Do people want to assume that they are morons instead? Do they wear their idiocy as a badge of honor? (They probably do, sadly).

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  4. @Smokeman: I was scammed. I believed that just behind the corner there is some great adventure. Then I believed that with avoiding broken features I can make the game challenging. I was wrong. I’m not a perfect human without error. In retrospect, I wouldn’t have bought it.

    @Azuriel: someone who accepts “fun” as a goal is necessarily a worthless subhuman (unless he is forced by external actors to not act on his goals), since any contribution to the mankind is “not fun”, while drinking, getting high and engaging in reckless activities is “fun”. Sure, everyone wants entertainment, but productive people do not pursue fun at the expense of their duties.

    Anyone who consciously says “I want fun, nothing else matters” cannot be anything but a welfare leech.

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  5. Its called leisure time. Reading, listening to music, watching TV and movies, socialising, etc., etc. Just because someone wants ‘fun, nothing else’ in their leisure time doesn’t make them unworthy. All it means is that they don’t feel a need to be challenged all the time. Many doctors, nurses, etc. play video games. Many of which you would probably class as toys rather than games (e.g. minecraft). Hardly welfare leech sort of people.
    Games do not have to have winning conditions. A quick google for the definition of game comes up with “An activity that one engages in for amusement or fun.” as well as your more hard line version of “A form of competitive activity or sport played according to rules.” (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/game)
    Even your perfect game you keep searching for is nothing more than that: something designed for fun or amusement. Nothing productive comes of being #1 in PUBG.

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  6. So… I assume you assumed he applied the first and third sentence to real life and not only to Subnautica? Maybe I am lacking some context here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was just talking about the sandbox game, in which no scoreboard (as far as I know, didn’t play it) or tournaments exist, so all you got is a ‘toy’ with some suggestions by the game designers how to play (= win) it.

    Nothing wrong with relaxing in a single player game after a hard pvp session or getting closer to your career goals imho.

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  7. I don’t know, that’s a lot of hate coming out here. You do not know anything about this guy except that he likes open ended fun in his games. You are now making general assumptions about other areas of his life, where he could be a completely responsible individual. It feels like you want to round up all the subnautica fans and send them off to gulags. All this “subhuman” talk smacks of fascism.

    I am kind of serious. You are getting twisted up in this ultra right wing stuff, and I do not think it is healthy. Come back to the middle, the land of reason.

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  8. @Eatenbyagrue: him wanting some meaningless fun isn’t the problem. Him standing by this decision in a discussion, defending it as a valuable goal is the problem. “Having meaningless fun” is something he stands up for instead of something he does on the side. He believes that this is the right way of living life: “nothing matters at all, just have fun”.

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  9. @Gevlon
    someone who accepts “fun” as a goal is necessarily a worthless subhuman, since any contribution to the mankind is “not fun”, […]. Sure, everyone wants entertainment, but productive people do not pursue fun at the expense of their duties

    Where is it implied anywhere that that poster is pursuing fun at the expense of their “duties?” Is it really likely that someone who has a PC capable of running Subnautica got there because of welfare to begin with? It’s infinitely more likely that the poster gets up and goes to work every morning, and then comes home and builds underwater bases at their leisure. About ~20% of Americans receive some kind of public assistance (only 5% of whom receive more than half of their income via such welfare). But if you look at the stats, Americans watch an average of 5 hours of TV a day. Are the 80% not on welfare who watch an average of several hours of TV similarly subhuman?

    I dunno, man. I think if you polled the people who read your blog and asked them why they go to work every morning, the portion that do so out of some duty to the advancement of mankind (however that is defined) versus those who work because they need money to exist/have fun, you’ll find the “subhumans” outnumber the “humans” 10:1. Or higher.

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  10. I can’t agree with you here. It’s a game. It’s even called entertainment industry. The goal of playing a game is to be entertained.
    If you are so focused on achieving you should be spending your time working overtime or getting new professional qualifications at and not “wasting” it with some silly games.

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  11. @all: let me further clarify. If someone goes to a party and drinks more than he planned and ends up wasted, that doesn’t make him a useless idiot. He is maybe irresponsible, maybe has to take steps to control his inability to stop drinking, but he is probably a valuable member of the society.

    Now imagine someone who goes to a party with proclaiming “nothing matters, let’s get wasted” and proceeds to do so. You’d agree that he is a useless idiot, despite the amount of alcohol consumed is the same both cases.

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  12. Its not a good analogy. You’re trying to say that doing something physically harmful (drinking too much) that might also be socially harmful (being drunk at/around other people) is somehow akin to having fun playing a single player game. An exercise which harms nobody.
    I don’t know. Maybe you go to parties with clear objectives of how many people you are going to speak to, and what topics you need to discuss, and how many future social engagements you are going to plan afterwards. I like to think that most people go to a party with no clear objectives, but just to enjoy themselves. To have fun.

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  13. Of course all games are entertainment. But WHAT entertains you? Challenge, competition or … just shiny things swirl on your screen. Big difference.

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  14. “Just shiny things swirl on your screen” – I think we can clearly deduce where you sit in the “are games art” discussion then!
    You are denigrating people based on how they spend their free time if what they are doing doesn’t challenge them or pit them in competition against other people. Do you also think people who paint or sketch in their free time worthless? Or is it just in the realm of using interactive computer based products designed for entertainment purposes?

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  15. >> imagine someone who goes to a party with proclaiming “nothing matters, let’s get wasted”

    Parties aren’t challenging competitions, they are not designed to produce value for the society – they serve recreational purposes. There ARE parties just for getting wasted. Granted, I don’t approve getting wasted because it isn’t really satisfactory and is bad for one’s health, but a party where people drink responsibly and watch some stupid movies is totally useless but legit in my opinion. On the other hand, a person who comes to my workplace (or a chess match, or in a raid in WoW) and proclaims “nothing matters, let’s get wasted” is surely a worthless idiot.

    Back to games. The existence of recreational toys isn’t a problem. Their current total domination is annoying but still isn’t a problem. Games which are advertised as competitive while being nothing more than a rigged clicker toy for endorphins – these must be denounced and shamed. So, you and that guy were discussing… Subnautica? Maybe he was just faster than you in realizing that Subnautica can’t be helped, therefore he’s totally right that in a toy game nothing matters. I’ve taken my time to read the thread, I dislike the attitude of the guy, but I can’t see him preaching unbridled hedonism overall. If he indeed meant “only fun does matter in life”, you’d be right to insult him the way you did, but that’s exactly the questionable thing, he might mean “only fun does matter in games / this game” (“in games” makes him wrong but still not a useless idiot; “in this game” makes him right).

    Not defending the guy here, but your post feels disturbing, it supports a good point but with wrong methods, or rather a wrong example.

    Something constructive: In that reddit thread you hit it by mentioning “scamming”. This world definitely needs some rating system to tell games and toys from each other, e.g. I very much like the “Difficult” tag for Cuphead in Steam store.

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  16. @Shamus: art improves the person’s association skills. Sure most people painting are just horrible, but painting itself is not worthless

    @Antze: Parties allow meeting new people and discussing stuff (sure most people doesn’t discuss great things, but still). Getting wasted instead of getting new friends is retarded even according to socials.

    If he realized that Subnautica is beyond help, he should have left like me instead of defending what Subnautica is.

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  17. I’ll have to second the opinion that any game that gets you to spend 200 hours on it is actually pretty okay if not excellent (even if you end up wanting it to be better and realise that it will never be).
    As for the guy, who is trying to defend his right to do whatever in the game, Gevlon is correct to point out the inconsistency in his behaviour (if you’re such a chill dude, why do you feel the need to defend anything in the first place?), but is imo has poorly articulated his conclusions.

    What i see here is a person that uses games to escape and Gevlon putting that person’s very right to escape into question. Depending on the person’s exact situation, Gevlon’s position can be actually cruel. Hence the pushback.

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  18. @Gevlon
    Challenge, competition or … just shiny things swirl on your screen. Big difference.
    […]
    art improves the person’s association skills. Sure most people painting are just horrible, but painting itself is not worthless

    So… the guy you quoted who builds bases – which requires imagination, creativity, work ethic to gather the resources, a drive to improve one’s state in “nature” – isn’t actually wasting his/her time then, right? Surely even the most banal game is better than the 5 hours of television the average American watches. One requires input and initiative in some way, and the other is just the passive consumption of shiny things that swirl on your screen.

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  19. Oh, you meant that kind of parties. I was probably lost in translation of languages. Well, there’s a wide array of “friends’ meetings” where everyone knows each other, don’t make new friends and don’t pursue any goal. Sometimes they drink a lot there, and it’s not considered retarded among socials (even though I don’t approve).

    >> If he realized that Subnautica is beyond help, he should have left like me instead of defending what Subnautica is.

    Not if he still likes it as a toy. Of course he didn’t interpret it as “beyond help”, he just realized Subnautica was a toy and would never be a challenging game, but for him that was OK.

    If a person generates value for the society but regularly wastes small parts of his life to some unproductive entertainment, it is not a big problem that needs to be shamed. Even if the person defends his moral right to take part in such activity. Even if everyone agrees that productive entertainment is better. There’s a long way from this to a hedonist hippie who sets “get drunk whenever possible” as a goal of his life.

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  20. @gevlon “If he realized that Subnautica is beyond help, he should have left like me instead of defending what Subnautica is.”

    You mean: “He realized Subnautica’s nature, so he enjoys and defends it for what it is, instead of slamming it for what it doesn’t try to be.”

    It is very presumptuous to state that just because somebody enjoys an exploration and base-building game, that they are non-competitive and hedonistic in all their life choices, be it other games or their real life. I think you generalized his statement way too much out of context here.

    It is for example perfectly possible for a person to enjoy both Subnautica and Wolfenstein, each for what they are, while considering both ‘games’. Granted, many people have preferences, but it’s not mutually exclusive.

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  21. Maxim formulated my position better than I could. “playing games for fun”, alike with “getting drunk” or “just watch TV” are all “escapism” and I condemn escapism as a worthless, cowardly way of coping with the world. It’s literally “I close my eyes and it’s gone”. Anyone doing it is a moron or slacker.

    @Azuriel: it doesn’t need imagination. You have a few tools and rigid rules how to build a base (it was probably originally designed as utility base supporting survival). It’s like playing LEGO with only a handful items.

    @Antze: all parties are “those” parties. People meet up to find new “friends” or sexual partners.

    If he realized that Subnautica is a toy and didn’t leave in disgust, he is disgusting.

    @Druur: you are or you are not a hedonistic person. While it’s possible that external factors stop him from being drunk 24/7 and he has to settle with building pointless bases, his desire to just “fuck the world, I want fun” is clearly there.

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  22. >> If he realized that Subnautica is a toy and didn’t leave in disgust, he is disgusting.

    No, he isn’t. The very same goes for the person who “realized” that watching random TV series is not challenging, and didn’t throw his TV set out of the window in disgust. Or the person who “realized” that having a bath or a massage gives only pleasure but doesn’t teach you anything productive, and didn’t get rid of all aromatic oils in disgust. Once again, it’s called “relaxation” and “recreation”. Any decent doctor would tell that any person needs SOME of this, and it’s good for mental health and staying productive. No one can strain oneself and overcome challenges 100% of their time.

    >> you are or you are not a hedonistic person

    Or a responsible person who understands the importance of effort, but allows some controlled amounts of “fun” in his life. Nothing is wrong in having a desire to “fuck the world, I want fun”, or escapism, for just one hour per week (only being addicted to such desire is wrong). Also, escapism is not a way of coping with the world (anyone using it as one is indeed M&S), it’s a way of GETTING SOME REST to return to the world and deal with it professionally and responsibly with fresh brain.

    When I’m damn tired, I can bathe for hours, or go for a walk, or start a stupid clicker game, I see no difference in this. I’d be really surprised if someone calls me M&S just because of this. As soon as I get back to senses, I switch to playing something challenging or coding my pet projects. But do I really have to play a challenging game on max level of difficulty, if I have neither strength nor concentration needed for it at the moment?

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  23. @Antze: if only there was a biological method to fight being tired, like “sleeping”, you wouldn’t have to resort wasting time and remain tired.

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  24. First, sleeping’s primary biological purpose is different, as far as I know it normalizes metabolism, and helping against tiredness is a bonus (if you don’t do anything for 8 hours, you indeed rest). Second, sleeping also “wastes time”. Third, sleeping doesn’t always work for everyone – some people can take a short nap, but I can’t just fall asleep in the middle of the day for 5 minutes at will (or for 1 hour after finishing work). Finally, there’s a difference between being sleepy and being tired, I can be 100% awake and energetic but not concentrated, and here relaxation and having oneself distracted helps.

    Indeed, I don’t NEED toy games for that, so surprisingly I would never object if you suggested to ban all such games by law, I would just pick some other nonproductive activity and never care much about it. But implying that any person who just takes some time to rest is a M&S is what causes disagreement.

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  25. @Gevlon
    Well, the thing with the proposed biological mathed is that there are situations when a person is both way tired and still unable to sleep. Psychologically, this situation happens when your threat detection system is firing on all cylinders, despite both you being tired and nothing in your immediate surroundings justifying the threat. This usually involves a premonition of impending doom in the future.
    Some people deal with that by killing some pretend demons to calm the whole thing down.

    You can certainly argue that the very fact of getting into such a situation is proof of M&S behaviour. Heck, this may even be true. Thinking like that, however, rarely leads the person in question to a working solution and instead forces even deeper into escapism.

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  26. @Gevlon

    “and I condemn escapism as a worthless, cowardly way of coping with the world.”

    I’m well employed. I am able to maintain a state of the art PC at any time because of my income. I am also able to purchase any game that I so choose because I choose to WORK and be a productive member of society.

    I also practice an association with the 24-hour day, whereby I am given 8 hours a day for work, 8 hours a day to dedicate to family and home matters, and 8 hours a day for rest and relaxation. If I get my family and home matters taken care of early, I have extra time to do as I see fit. If that extra time is spent unwinding, relaxing and playing a video game or two, then it is MY time to do with as I see fit. Escapism is a perfectly normal activity and it does not make someone an M&S.

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  27. So to take this to absurdity, it feels like your position is that if one is not spending all of ones waking hours in activities that will nurture and improve us, or at least provide us with the means to continue doing so (i.e. working) then we are being wasteful?
    How do you feel about physical sports and games? I make the distinction there, for example: consider playing in a 5-a-side league, versus having a kick-about with some friends in the park. It feels like you would consider the latter wasteful unless it became more organised and a victor could be decided, even though its good fitness exercise for those involved, albeit “just a bit of fun”.
    No interactive computer experience is wasteful. Studies have shown that simply spending time in such an environment can improve hand-eye coordination and mental capacity. It can also be used as therapy in some instances. The ‘fun’ you are so quick to denigrate may just be enough to keep people centred and well balanced. Mental health is a spectrum and I’m sure many people are, effectively if not consciously, self-medicating in this fashion. This is why many people will stop playing a game if it becomes too challenging. It starts to leave them frustrated and depressed so they seek out something less taxing. Something more ‘fun’.

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  28. Let me get this straight:

    We’re arguing the merits of one useless, completely unproductive activity using a computer over another equally useless, unproductive activity using a computer.

    If you are playing an actual sport, where you actually get some exercise, you can claim to be doing something useful. But “competing” with some random on the internet is no more productive or useful than building a base in Subnautica. At the end of the day, both accomplished nothing except keeping you focused on something and perhaps an endorphin shot.

    I’m not saying games are useless, there is always SOME education value in games, but it’s a law of diminishing returns. And besides, entertainment is valuable in and of itself as part of a balanced lifestyle.

    But to call someone a moron because they like a different kind of entertainment is seriously elitist.

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  29. @Smokeman: video games have a value, more than educational. They give competitive, hard-working mindset. I strongly believe that they are greatly responsible that Gen Z is not as disastrous as Millenials.

    I’m judging that moron not because of the kind of entertainment he likes, but because his motto “do whatever fun you want to do”

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  30. Dear Gevlon,
    I am sad that I have to totally disagree with you point of view in this matter. Sandbox games and many other “creative” games which are not competitive, do not require competitive gameplay. Sometimes, devs want to provide with “fun” just by letting the player explore, experiment and just spend time. If EVERYTHING was competitive in games, then we might be better of not playing and compete either in our professional life or in “competitions” where the reward is RL money, RL fame or at least RL rewards.
    Just making a few billion/trillion ISK in EVE without RMT will not give RL rewards, so basically is a total waste of RL time and therefore an activity for M&S…
    Acting competitively in a sandbox game is an operation waiting to fail.
    There was an excellent game in the late 80’s, it was made by FTL and was called “DUNGEON MASTER”. It still has such a danbase that several computer geeks rewrote that game in Java and other code, so that you basically still can play it today. One version contains a stopwatch and a stepcounter and people have begun competing to finish the endboss with the fewest steps or time needed. This should be to your liking, but to compare sandbox games to competitive games is not the right thing to do.

    Btw, take soccer for example: a lot of teams compete in their respective divisions and the “best” teams in Europe compete in the “champions league”. Spanish teams very often win, be it Real or Barca. The fun fact is that doping controls in Spain are a total joke and even the government protects the sacred cow football/soccer.

    Now, the only reasonable thing to do for other teams would be to either assure that they can have as much doping as spanish teams or assure that no one gets doping at all, as long as these conditions are not met, no team should play against these doping cheaters. But still, they play, risk their health and therefore their carreers in matches where losses are much more probable as victories… Stupid teams, eh? Maybe they like playing for fun?

    Or look at the olympics, why do so many athletes compete in biathlon? There are only three medals to win and therefore having more than four athletes in this competition is inefficient….
    Same goes for any other competitions where more candidates thant prices take part…
    Could it be that these setups are nonlinear and that these outcomes are not always predefined, but decided by “chance” and therefore “homo ludens” comes into play and people are in it for the thrill of taking part and having a slight chance to come out in the top three at the end? Are these people all hopeless morons and slackers?

    I think this time you missed an awful lot about the human nature, the nature of nonlinear systems and how the real world works…

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  31. I don’t think you realise. You’re criticising a game for being the wrong sort of thing. He’s saying your wrong because it is giving him the entertainment he likes. That’s precisely what “it doesn’t matter, its fun” means here. His point is that the entertainment he likes doesn’t involve challenges and achievements. Just because you feel unfulfilled without them doesn’t mean they’re essential for everyone. You literally are judging someone a moron because the the entertainment they like!

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  32. @Gevlon

    You might want to update your Moron & Slacker page, then. It used to be a nuanced, articulate designation that included statements like “Casuals can range from never-reach-max level funplayers exploring the world […]”. Now, apparently, M&S can simply be defined as taking part in any non-competitive, relaxing activity across human experience.

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  33. Gevlon:
    “@Smokeman: video games have a value, more than educational. They give competitive, hard-working mindset.”

    No they don’t. That’s something overly competitive asses bring with them.

    Plenty of people have a hard working mindset. When they’re at work. I know I do… I bring my A game, as it were. But see… I don’t need to do that in a game, as I don’t see the need to compete with people in there. And why? Is it because I’m not competitive? No… it’s because I understand that it’s literally stupid to compete in an online game.

    Save that for your real job.

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  34. @Smokeman: no. If you play PUBG, you are forced to compete other players. Sure, you can still approach with a “lololol” mindset, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’ll be dead in a few seconds after landing, and will be in the bottom 30% until you fix your attitude.

    Video games – unlike real life – allow experimentation and trying out new things. In real life you can’t come up with something unorthodox, because the consequence of failure is too big. Also, you are often not allowed to change anything. The world wants you to be just a cog in the machine owned by others. The games can help you to gain the skillset needed to stand up for yourself, believe in that you can be more than a cog.

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  35. “@Smokeman: no. If you play PUBG, you are forced to compete other players. Sure, you can still approach with a “lololol” mindset, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’ll be dead in a few seconds after landing, and will be in the bottom 30% until you fix your attitude.”

    Hiding from people is the antithesis of competing with them.

    “Video games – unlike real life – allow experimentation and trying out new things. In real life you can’t come up with something unorthodox, because the consequence of failure is too big. Also, you are often not allowed to change anything. The world wants you to be just a cog in the machine owned by others. The games can help you to gain the skillset needed to stand up for yourself, believe in that you can be more than a cog.”

    And yet… you promote greater penalty on failure to dissuade the act of stepping up, believing you can do it, and trying.

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  36. @Smokeman: whatever gets me live longer than them is winning over them. If it’s hiding in an outhouse, than hiding in an outhouse is the optimal move.

    Death penalty in games are not real. I don’t claim you should lose real money for losing in a game. You should lose imaginary gear and pixel stats. Even if you lose *everything* in game (total permadeath), you are still sitting at your room, front of the computer and your family didn’t notice a thing about you “losing everything”.

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